MovieChat Forums > Blackboard Jungle (1955) Discussion > REAL SCHOOL

REAL SCHOOL

posted 17 years ago by hawk41012
8 replies | jump to latest

the truth is that some schools-more than people admit-are like the school depicted.that movie was both in and out of its time--having that universal quality to it.Upper class suburban schools do not usually manifest themselves in those ways. But don't be fooled there are other less violent but just as wicked things that go on there. They just may be sophisticated enough to control their disruptiveness in equally haRMFUL WAYS. Guys like DADIER are truly the courageous of our society and are often scorned. Money is not the measure of man !

[–] billymac72 15 years ago

I work in education and recently watched this for the first time in several years. I actually find it very realistic in many ways, especially the attitudes/behavior in the classroom; it's one thing to control kids, but another entirely to actually get them interested. The frustration characterized by Dadier seems very real to me, despite some inaccuracies (I couldn't imagine, for instance, a new teacher openly admonishing the faculty in the lounge like he does).

[–] rondine 12 years ago

I agree with billymac72.
I recently watched this movie (when it was on TCM) and I am in education and found much of it very realistic and still pertinent.
I agree teachers don't admonish each other openly, but that was a vehicle for expressing part of the story, not necessarily a realistic event. However, they do say such things to each other in private.
That said, it is the conundrum of getting them interested that is always the eternal problem. Nowadays with kids being so over-stimulated by video, a classroom seems slow paced to them by comparison- being entertained at all times is becoming an expectation.
It is still an incredibly difficult job that isn't any better paid than it was back then. That said, it is, at times, also a sublimely satisfying job that can change the world- one person at a time.

[–] franzkabuki 11 years ago

"It is the conundrum of getting them interested that is always the eternal problem".

It`s hilarious though how here, Ford manages to get the attention of these hoodlums by showing them a bloody cartoon - and afterwards having them discuss the motivations of the cartoon characters! There are several aspects about this rather preachy movie that haven`t exactly aged well, but this one must have seemed silly already in 1955.

"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

[–] rondine 11 years ago

You make the statement that there are "several aspects of this rather preachy movie that haven't exactly aged well," but you only give us one of them, and in my humble opinion, you are mistaken in that example.

To say that having kids discuss the motivations of a cartoon is silly just shows that you have never tried it. I have done many similar things (including discussing the relationship between Dory and Marlin in "Finding Nemo") that the kids really dug their "teeth" into. They enjoy discussing things that they find easy to relate to. This is obviously a stepping stone to more serious topics, and deeper level questioning.

I would be interested to know if you are a teacher. You started your reply with a quote from my post, yet didn't really comment if you have a solution to it. Identifying the problem is easy, finding solutions requires understanding, thought, innovation and creativity.

[–] franzkabuki 11 years ago

Yeah, well, good luck trying to engage near-grownups, some of whom are shown to be essentially career criminals, by asking them to psychoanalyze cartoon characters. These may be delinquents, but they`re no ten-year olds nor morons and would obviously feel condescended to; if I were the teach, I`d wear body armor to the event.

"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

[–] rondine 11 years ago

I'll save you from answering a direct question: you are obviously NOT a teacher.

The over-generalization that 1) they are near-grownups and 2) they are essentially career criminals, is inaccurate in many ways. I not only have my own anecdotal information, but that of friends, colleagues and a history of people that make a difference for their students. People who cavalierly shrug and say things like, "good luck," are those that would not have the perseverance to be good teachers.

Students are also smart enough to know the difference between being condescending and using something like a cartoon to illustrate a point. It is an almost snobbish attitude that assumes the only things worth analyzing are those things considered high-brow or sophisticated.

I will give you a real-life example. I teach 8th grade (a notoriously difficult age to teach) and we watched the movie, "UP" just last year.
There is a scene where it is a musical montage of the couple getting married, finding out they cannot have children, saving up for that trip that would assuage the pain of no children, only to find that daily life with its expenses took over. In the end of the montage, his wife dies, leaving him with the memories & the guilt of the trip he promised to take her on that never happened.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2bk_9T482g

I swear to you, the kids were MESMERIZED. They didn't move a muscle during the scene, they didn't cough, mumble or say anything after the scene. As it faded to black, you could have heard a pin drop for what seemed like an eternity in Jr. High time.
This led to one of the best discussions I've ever had about life, death, dreams and goals. Goals led to a discussion about effort in school - I tell you truly, the performance of that class went up in a measurable way.

Tell me they felt condescended to... you would be wrong.

[–] franzkabuki 11 years ago

"You are obviously NOT a teacher".

Obviously. However, one don`t need to be a teacher in order to have some clue about human behaviour. Besides, most teachers I`ve seen, haven`t exactly been experts in understanding what makes their pupils tick, or how to handle the hooligans amongst their cattle.

"The over-generalization that 1) they are near-grownups and 2) they are career criminals".

1) Students in a class tend to be of the same age... and most of these seemed well past the early throes of puberty and 2) I wrote "SOME of whom are essentially career criminals" - not exactly a "generalization". And I wasn`t talking about any irrelevant anecdotes, either, but rather of the folk who were actually shown in the film engaging in premeditated criminal activity.

"People who cavalierly shrug and say things like "good luck", are those that would not have the perseverance to be good teachers".

Some of these folks would have needed a warden, or someone like drill instructor Hartman from Full Metal Jacket, not a teacher, good or bad. It`s admirable of Glenn Ford to have tried this impossibly hard, but my idea of teaching doesn`t really go quite as far as trading body blows with the students; in the real world, the realization that most of this zoo was unsalvagable, would have dawned on him, or any teacher, very soon. Which is precisely the problem here - all this talk about "getting through to them", is just hopelessly naive (I wager even a majority of young teenagers of this sort couldn`t be turned around - although they could be tamed... and usually, in a certain age, even those "career criminals" lose interest in raising hell in the school & tormenting teachers). And the film itself believes in this nonsensical romantic idealism, not just Ford.

"Students are also smart enough to know the difference between being condescending and using a cartoon to illustrate a point".

Sorry, but this just didn`t look convincing and neither did the whole dynamic that led to the conclusion we have. It`s not uproariously off-the-wall or downright goofy (it certainly didn`t distract me from generally enjoying the pretty tight drama presented with solid narrative momentum), but it is kinda broad and just doesn`t ring quite right.

"It is an almost snobbish attitude that assumes the only things worth analyzing are those things considered high-brow or sophisticated".

There`s a vast middle ground between the kind of cartoon Ford used and an Ingmar Bergman psychodrama you know.

"I swear to you, the kids were MESMERIZED".

Did you give them horse tranquilizers first lol? But indeed the pupils in BJ were older as well as the worst of the worst gathered together.

Btw, you were asking what would `I` propose should be done... well, there are a couple of elementary steps - firstly, smaller classes. Secondly, weed out the Vic Morrows, i.e. the leading evil influences (there are different kinds of facilities with higher security levels for people like him). Than `maybe` something would come of it.

"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

[–] rondine 11 years ago

I'll save you from answering a direct question: you are obviously NOT a teacher.

The over-generalization that 1) they are near-grownups and 2) they are essentially career criminals, is inaccurate in many ways. I not only have my own anecdotal information, but that of friends, colleagues and a history of people that make a difference for their students. People who cavalierly shrug and say things like, "good luck," are those that would not have the perseverance to be good teachers.

Students are also smart enough to know the difference between being condescending and using something like a cartoon to illustrate a point. It is an almost snobbish attitude that assumes the only things worth analyzing are those things considered high-brow or sophisticated.

I will give you a real-life example. I teach 8th grade (a notoriously difficult age to teach) and we watched the movie, "UP" just last year.
There is a scene where it is a musical montage of the couple getting married, finding out they cannot have children, saving up for that trip that would assuage the pain of no children, only to find that daily life with its expenses took over. In the end of the montage, his wife dies, leaving him with the memories & the guilt of the trip he promised to take her on that never happened.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh7kVYYBNyk

I swear to you, the kids were MESMERIZED. They didn't move a muscle during the scene, they didn't cough, mumble or say anything after the scene. As it faded to black, you could have heard a pin drop for what seemed like an eternity in Jr. High time.
This led to one of the best discussions I've ever had about life, death, dreams and goals. Goals led to a discussion about effort in school - I tell you truly, the performance of that class went up in a measurable way.

Tell me they felt condescended to... you would be wrong.