MovieChat Forums > Vera Cruz (1954) Discussion > Did Burt Lancaster shoot?

Did Burt Lancaster shoot?

posted 19 years ago by Aticusfinch
32 replies | jump to latest

Maybe I´m overinterpreting for this is a kind of discussion that has never been raised about this movie. But I have second thoughts about the final shoot- out between Gary Cooper and Burt Lancaster.

After having shot Lancaster Cooper approaches his already dead body, then takes Lancaster´s gun in his hand and stares at it for a second. Then stares again at Lancaster with visible emotion. Why?

My guess is that perhaps Lancaster didn´t fire his gun at all. In the last second he got remorses because Cooper was giving him the chance he had denied to everybody else before.

I don´t know if my guess is right or not,but at least it´s a very suggesting one. What do you think?

[–] tiller088 19 years ago

Sorry, Atticus. I just watched it tonight, and there's no doubt Lancaster fired. There was an obvious cloud of smoke that comes from his direction.

I think Trane's (Cooper's) emotion when he tosses the gun away comes from a feeling that despite everything, he liked Joe (Lancaster) and regretted that it had to come to a shootout between the two at the end. If he didn't, he would have let the Juaristas kill him in the earlier fight in the town.

Just my thought on a classic film.

BTW - Does everyone know that they filmed at least three endings to this movie, with Cooper, Lancaster, and both of them dying in the end? I believe that no one except the director knew which ending was going to be used until well after the completion of the movie - maybe even right up until the premier!

[–] Aticusfinch 19 years ago

Thank you for the information tiller088

[–] spope2 18 years ago

Whoever died, it would've been kinda sad!....great ending anyway!...Burt rarely died!

[–] wtl471629 18 years ago

I wonder what would the ending was if Burt had won. I can see if the ending was both being killed the Juaristas still would have got the gold. But if Burt had won he was planning to escape with the gold but I can't see that ending being used since back then justice had to always win out in the end.
I think the ending used was the planned one and the other two were just used to keep others guessing. A ruse (spelling?) so to speak.

[–] wtl471629 18 years ago

I have had more thought on it since my last post but I still think they had planned on Cooper winning in the end. Still it would have made since if Landcaster won to have him have a change of heart after killing Cooper and have him give the gold to the Juaristas. Of course if both of them died the Juaristas would have won anyway. Still those seem far fetched to me so I think that it was still planned to have the ending the way it was.

[–] wtl471629 18 years ago

A fourth ending they could have had would have been both refusing to draw on each other at the shootout and giving the gold to the Juaristas as promised. This would have given us a happy ending. I am sure it wasn't considered because it would have been a big letdown after all that buildup.

[–] marktayloruk (2558) a year ago

Why would he want to do that?

[–] dgordon-9 10 years ago

Agree to all. Joe Erin wasn't a nice person, but Ben liked him anyway and regretted having to shoot him.

[–] jrogersdal 17 years ago

Lancaster definitely fired. But I know what you mean, there was something fishy about the shootout. They both drew and shot simultaneoulsy, so why did Lancaster miss? It's not like Cooper's shot interrupted his, Lancaster even spun his gun and holstered it afterwards. Then when Cooper approaches and pulls Lancaster's pistol he gives it a hard look and throws it away in disgust, like he was angry that he ended up with some advantage and it wasn't fair to his sense of honor. I wonder if they were implying that something was wrong with Lancaster's pistol?

A puzzle...

[–] Aticusfinch 16 years ago

Thank you, Jrogersdal, you just read my mind.

Sadly enough most of the people involved in the making of this movie - Aldrich, Cooper, Lancaster, screenwriters ... - passed away for some time, so we won´t probably ever get to know if there was really something about this or if we are just having to much imagination.

[–] jrogersdal 16 years ago

Maybe we can ask Ernest Borgnine?

Hey Ernest!! What's the verdict?

[–] wtl471629 16 years ago

Good point jr. One wonders because as one remembers in an earlier scene with Maximilian both were fast and expert shots and both fired and should have hit each other. Of course everyone makes a mistake and misses once in a while and this may have been Burt's time to miss. Ernest?

[–] wtl471629 16 years ago

Also Denise Darcel is still alive (I think) and she was an actual witness to the shootout. Maybe she has some thoughts on it too.

[–] Aticusfinch 16 years ago

Ha, ha, hadn´t thought about them, thank you. Now we only need to know their e-mails and send the question. Anyone´s got them?

[–] wtl471629 16 years ago

Sorry I can't help with the email addresses but Sara Montiel who is from Mexico is also alive even though she is about 80. She might be one that knows. She played Nina the love interest of Gary Cooper.

[–] Bklyn4ever 16 years ago

This scene struck me as fishy too.

Burt dies smiling, as if he got what he wanted. He made Cooper shoot him in a "fair" duel instead of just gunning Burt down for the murder of their colleague (the man of color). Burt challenged him to a draw to assuage Cooper's conscience, not because Burt wanted to survive. So I think he threw away the shot and let Cooper cut him down.

But the more I think about it the more I think that this impression was not intended by the script and director; it was the result of Burt Lancaster and his huge ego insisting on getting "the last laugh", or the last grin, as it were. He refused to die like a defeated villain, making the viewer think he had planned it that way. The ambiguity is the result of the clash between Burt's ego and the rest of the people involved in the production, which is evident throughout the movie.

Cooper's reaction is easier to read because it fits in with the intended plot: he gets tearful as he tosses aside Burt's gun because it is a "he who lives by the gun, dies by the gun" moment for him. He basically liked the guy but because Burt resorted to excessive force, getting carried away by his gunslinger lifestyle, Coop had to put a stop to it.

[–] rogerscorpion 16 years ago

Yeah--I see it as Ben tossed the gun, because he really liked Joe & kept hoping Joe was only pretending to be as bad as he truly was.
Joe really had no loyalty--as exhibited by killing Strode--who was blindly loyal to Joe.
Burt died smiling, because he saw the humor in everything. He gambled & he lost.

Carpe Noctem

[–] oldblackandwhite 14 years ago

Personally, I can't believe the story about the alternate endings being filmed. There can never have been any question Coop's character would win the gunfight. Lancaster's character was an total scumbag with no redeeming characteristics, and he was proud of it. If some actor other than Lancaster had played him, one who usually played villians, say Jack Lambert, you would all recognize this, and wouldn't be carrying on so. He definitely shot his revolver. I don't think Ben (Cooper) actually liked Joe (Lancaster). He just felt sorry for him because he had been raised in such a scummy way that helped turn him into an amoral killer. But each of us is ultimately responsible for his or her own behavior regardless of circumstances.

By the way Woody Stode was not in this movie.

He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good... St. Matthew 5:45

[–] rogerscorpion 14 years ago

I'm embarrassed. It was Archie Savage---not Woody.
I think Ben liked Joe. Joe was charming & Ben thought Joe was redeemable. Ben was seriously sad, when he had to kill him.

Carpe Noctem!

[–] oldblackandwhite 14 years ago

Don't be embarassed, rogerscorpion. We all err. That's why they put erasers on pencils.

If Ben thought Joe was redeemable, he was very stupid. They say the devil is charming.

He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good... St. Matthew 5:45

[–] S_Leone 14 years ago

I think you are all reading too much into it. The gunfight was shot in such a way that the audience wouyld think that the bad guy had at first won. It was nothing to do with any ones ego

[–] rogerscorpion 14 years ago

...or at least so close, that we'd not be sure, until Joe fell.

Carpe Noctem!

[–] Jessica_Rabbit69 14 years ago

"After having shot Lancaster Cooper approaches his already dead body, then takes Lancaster´s gun in his hand and stares at it for a second. Then stares again at Lancaster with visible emotion. Why?
My guess is that perhaps Lancaster didn´t fire his gun at all. In the last second he got remorses because Cooper was giving him the chance he had denied to everybody else before. "

"Lancaster definitely fired. But I know what you mean, there was something fishy about the shootout. They both drew and shot simultaneoulsy, so why did Lancaster miss? "
"I wonder if they were implying that something was wrong with Lancaster's pistol? "

I can't believe nobody has thought about this before. I always assumed Lancaster left his gun empty on purpose. Cooper was the only friend he ever had, he didn't want to shoot him. It was the only "good deed" he ever did in his life. Cooper realizes this when he picks up Lancaster's gun. There is definitively self-loathing in his eyes.

Jessica Rabbit
"I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way."

[–] Bruce7 14 years ago

There were two 'reports.'(pistols)

Can you fly this plane?
Surely you can't be serious.
I am serious,and don't call me Shirley

[–] Bruce7 14 years ago

Trivia says Coop didn't like her, she smelled and never washed her hair. lol

Can you fly this plane?
Surely you can't be serious.
I am serious,and don't call me Shirley

[–] edestci 11 years ago

Sara Montiel who is from Mexico

Not she was from Spain, it's an extended error.
Sara Montiel (1928-2013).

[–] Bruce7 14 years ago

Maybe the Col. was upset thinking(knowing?)Joe deliberately missed?

Can you fly this plane?
Surely you can't be serious.
I am serious,and don't call me Shirley

[–] rogerscorpion 14 years ago

Honestly, I think Joe tried to kill Ben, but Ben beat him, but not by much. I do NOT believe Joe allowed himself to be killed. I think Ben was in denial all along, hoping Joe wasn't really as bad as he 'put on'. Prob is---Joe was.

If Joe's gun had been empty, Ben would've opened the cylinder & the camera would've trained on it, to accentuate that Joe tossed the fight.

Joe was bad & Ben was just a hair faster.

Carpe Noctem!

[–] Bruce7 14 years ago

You would think Joe might have had that sentiment towards Ben for the booty.

Can you fly this plane?
Surely you can't be serious.
I am serious,and don't call me Shirley

[–] edestci 11 years ago

I made me the same question.
Why Lancaster tries to take the Winchester, after jump of the balcony,
if had bullets in his gun ?
Many claim, Lancaster allows win to him (Cooper) on purpose.
Something strange happens in this final duel ....

[–] joeparkson 11 years ago

Joe had the strength and coordination to spin his gun back into his holster after being shot.

If he was 100% bad, he'd have taken careful aim and killed Cooper.

The aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed and clamorous to be led to safety.

[–] spookyrat1 10 years ago

Yes, Joe definitely shot and yes Ben, the gentleman mercenary, was always going to clean up in the final showdown.