MovieChat Forums > The Caine Mutiny (1954) Discussion > A Question or Two About the Caine Towing...

A Question or Two About the Caine Towing Targets

posted 14 years ago by Stevicus-2
9 replies | jump to latest

After rewatching this movie again the other night, I started thinking more about the scene where the Caine was towing targets and wondering about what was keeping the target in place as the ship steamed in a circle. Why wouldn't the target move, too?

Has anything like that ever happened in real life?

In the movie, Captain Queeg complains about it being a defective cable, so is it possible that a stronger cable might have remained intact and dragged the target along with the ship, rather than cutting the cable and leaving the target adrift?

[–] iroquoisjoe 14 years ago

question: Why wouldn't the target move, too?
answer: The target does move. It moves forward. But the arc of the turn cuts across that path. The geometry is...basically: if the diameter of the turn of the ship is longer than the length of the line from the ship to the target, their courses will intersect...speed can not change this as long as that line is connected.

question: Has anything like that ever happened in real life?
answer: Probably.

question: Is it possible that a stronger cable might have remained intact and dragged the target along with the ship, rather than cutting the cable and leaving the target adrift?
answer: Probably. But would such a stronger cable's weight and thickness make it a good medium for towing targets with?

[–] cgostel 14 years ago

The turn radius of the ship is much tighter than the turn radius of the target and a few thousand feet of cable.

My destroyer has a towed array sonar. We have a rule that limits how far you can turn at one time to prevent exactly what CAINE did. If we turn too fast, it's possible to steam over the cable and either cut it, foul the screws, or mess up the winch/spool upon which it is stored.

[–] Stevicus-2 14 years ago

Thanks for your answers, gentlemen.

It's strange that I've watched this movie so many times and never really thought about that scene too much. I was always focused more on Captain Queeg's dialog than what the ship was actually doing at the time.

The movie makes it look like Queeg blaming the "defective cable" as just an excuse, but I wondered if there was any possible argument that might have justified Queeg's position.

[–] iroquoisjoe 14 years ago

Well, in theory, in such a mind as Queeg's, he quite possibly really thought the cable to actually be defective. And I guess it could even have been.

...but the question is moot.

Amongst his other failings was the question of Queeg's incompetence and aberrant thinking. Apparently a prudent captain does not cross over his own towing line. It would seem this is common knowledge in the Navy based on the reaction of the crew.

As a previous poster mentioned there are considerable hazards to be risked by such a course of action (or inaction). So defective cable or not, that particular argument is irrelevant in comparison to his lack of judgment...and the position that 'it was not his fault' is simply untenable

Your daughter ate my Toblerone!!!

[–] TorontoJediMaster 14 years ago

From the book:

The ship was swinging in a circular path. The target and towline were well forward of the beam, The helmsman was staring at the target, his mouth gaping. The turning diameter of the Caine was a thousand yards, and the towline was twice that long; it was therefore obvious to Stilwell that at the present rate the ship was going to cut far inside the target, and pass over its own towline.

A further problem is that Queeg refuses to recover the target for fear of looking foolish through a late arrival back at Pearl. Maryk and Gorton (then the Executive Officer) strongly urge him to do so but he refuses, opting to radio for a recovery tug instead.

When Queeg is called to account for the incident soon after, what galls the Admiral, and his Chief of Staff, is not that the target was lost -apparently targets coming loose from the towline wasn't an uncommon event, but that Queeg didn't attempt to recover it.

"Hell, man, there's nothing complicated about recovering a target," Grace said irritably. "You can do it in half an hour. DMS's out there have done it a dozen times..."

and then,

"May I know, sir," Queeg said in a faltering tone, "in what respect the admiral finds fault with me?"

"Well, hang it man, first time under way you run up in the mud -of course, that can happen to anybody- but then you try to duck a grounding report and when you do send one in upon request, why it's just a phony gun-deck job. And then what do you do call that despatch to us yesterday? 'Dear me, I've lost a target, please, ComServPac, what shall I do' Admiral blew up like a land mine. NOT because you lost the target -because you couldn't make a decision that was so obvious a seaman second class could have made it! If the function of command is not to make decisions and take responsibility, what is it?"

[–] randyparr1952 14 years ago

Unless the steel cable floats, would'nt the turn (say after about 180 degrees)cause the line to slacken and therefore sink into the depths. I would think more likely that the line would sink, catch on some obstruction on the ocean bottom and part by tension. By the time the ship turns 270 degrees, the line is dragging on the bottom.

I don't have to show you any stinking badges!

[–] Bernnard_Black 14 years ago

No, because even though the majority of the cable is still relatively straight and unmoving, it still has tension on it from the ship. Plus, the ship itself actually reaches pretty low into the water; 20 feet or more, I'd guess.

[–] cgostel 13 years ago

You're absolutely right. Also, the water in the open ocean area is thousands of feet deep, so the cable is most definitely not scraping on the bottom.

[–] denham 12 years ago

Plus when it catches the cable the ship is practically on the target, ie where the cable is necessarily near the surface.

"I beseech ye in the bowels of Christ, think that ye may be mistaken."