MovieChat Forums > The Caine Mutiny (1954) Discussion > Commander DeVriess Ideal ships captain?

Commander DeVriess Ideal ships captain?


There has been a lot of discussion about Captain Queeg but not much if any about the previous Caine captain Commander Devriess.

His approach was the opposite of Queeg in that he focused on essentials and was forgiving with regard to many traditional military protocols apparently because he felt they had to be downplayed in what he referred to as a tired old ship in the junk yard Navy.
Personally I have a lot of sympathy for that approach but I also have great respect for military protocols that have been honed over thousands of years of experience. The book and movie definitely tilts in favor of DeVriess adaptive approach to command since it shows him getting such good results compared to Queeg.

It would be great to hear how some navy veterans on this board discuss Commander DeVriess' as a ships captain.

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i'm not a veteran, but come from a family with several.

devriess was not an ideal captain by any means, but he was a very good one in my opinion. he focused on results, and despite a gruff exterior gave much consideration to his men's morale.

on the other hand, queeg was about as bad a captain as one could be - paranoid, always right, insecure, and obsessed with meaningless rules and regulations.

look at the typhoon - ANY captain of any competence would manuever to save his ship - but not queeg; the bastard would let the ship sink first. if that weren't enough, he lied under oath during the court-martial. at a minimum, queeg should have been given a dishonorable discharge.

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The secret is, in the world as well as in the Navy, is to run a tight ship without seeming like you are running a tight ship. If you can pull that off then you've got the secret.

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In the book, one of the psychiatrists testifies at the count martial -while undergoing Greenwald's cross-examinination- that Queeg isn't so much lying as having rewritten the events in his own mind.

I agree that DeVriess, while not perfect, was a far better captain than Queeg.

In the book, DeVriess admits that the ship is in less than ideal shape and isn't pleased with the fact -as he's an Annapolis man well indoctrinated in spit and polish. But, he says outright that so much effort is needed just to keep the outmoded vessel operating properly he simply can't order the crew to divert attention to secondary tasks.

As well, unlike Queeg, DeVriess had actually served on the Caine prior to becoming captain. He'd been aboard -as of the fall of 1943- for five years and had been the ship's executive officer before assuming command. So, he knew the ship intimately as well as the strengths of the officers and senior enlisted men.

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I'm a Navy Vet, but it was 23 years in the Reserves with two mobilizations - one for Desert Storm, one in '03. On top of that, I was medical - a Navy Corpsman; my Dad told me when I was a child that medical often forgets it's in the military. That being said, I served for a couple of COs, OICs or just Department Heads that were the type I preferred. I didn't care if they tore me a new *beep* if I was wrong, but they also would have (and sometimes did) back me to the gates of hell when I was right. I always knew where I stood with them, and I knew that the authority I was delegated would not depend upon politics or the phase of the moon.

I did have a couple of Department Heads that were much like Queeg and I hated it. Morale was very poor because the worker bees never knew what would please him/her on any given day.

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In the book, one of the psychiatrists testifies at the count martial -while undergoing Greenwald's cross-examinination- that Queeg isn't so much lying as having rewritten the events in his own mind.
i would agree about queeg rewriting events in his own mind but in the film, he constanly says "i don't recall" when faced with embarrasing questions on the witness stand. that leads me to believe he was lying, at least some of the time.

i should read the book one of these days, since it seems to explain many things much better than the film. i also agree with your assessment of devreiss, who had his hands full just keeping the ship operating.

i thought it was interesting how when queeg took over, devriess told him that while the ship looked messy, every man aboard was ok. queeg wasn't even interested in that valuable information - the first of many mistakes he would make.


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Thanks for he input. DeVriess did tune his approach to the situation with the Caine and he got results as well as a devoted crew. I wonder though how well he would do in an inspection by senior officers. Would they recognize the appropriateness of his approach and defer to him since he is the captain. Or would they hold him to a spit and polish standard. I wonder if there is enough slack in the system to recognize DeVriess is a good captain doing the best with what he has.

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I'd think they'd ultimately evaluate deVriess on the basis of results. His superiors would have been men who had not only been ships' captains themselves, but had done well enough to be selected to supervise other captains. They're not foolish martinets, but people who had sat in the captain's chair and knew what the job took. Especially in wartime, I'd think that a captain who consistently got the results asked of him would be valued.

As you said, deVriess was just adapting his approach to the situation. Maybe the ship would have looked sharper if everyone had shaved every day, but that wasn't the reality he had to work with. To put it another way -- if you have a job to do, say, driving a nail into a board, and you don't have a proper hammer, you can either waste time lamenting your lack of a hammer, or you can pick up a rock and use that.

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I believe that DeVriess' superiors would've taken into account several factors:

One, how he and the ship performed in combat. It's alluded that the Caine had seen a great deal of action down in the Soloman Islands prior to Willie coming aboard. Apparently DeVriess has performed well during his time in command (It's never said how long he's been captain, but it was considered a rarity for captains to hold their post for more than a year before a routine relief. So, we can presume DeVriess assumed command in October-November of 1942.)

Two, it was well known that the Caine and other vessels in her squadron were outdated World War I era four-pipers. They were rusted from decades of salt water exposure and had highly outmoded equipment. (At a party that Willie attends, an admiral expresses shock that the Caine is still in commission.) DeVriess' superiors recognized how labour intensive it would be to keep the ship functioning properly, especially with the vast majority of the officers and crew made up of wartime recruits. (In the pre-war Navy, officers and men stayed on one ship for far longer. So, the pre-war crew of the Caine would have been more familiar with her and knew the best way to keep the ship working.

Three, in wartime the Caine -and other DMS vessels- were almost constantly at sea and usually operating in the forward area. That made adherence to spit and polish standards difficult.

Overall though, I suspect that DeVriess would have reverted back to a more spit and polish when he took command of his new vessel. He probably would have maintained his more relaxed style of command, but insisted that the officers ensure the men be as neat as possible (which would be far easier in a new ship -DeVriess figured he was being sent to take command of a new ship just being built- than in the decrepit, outmoded Caine.

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In the final scene of the movie you see that in the appropriate circumstances DeVriess was quite strict, when Willie is kissing May on the dock near his new ship Captain DeVriess appears looking immaculate in appearance, walking purposefully with a military strut, he immediately snaps 'Attention on deck' and all the sailors and officers nearby jump to it. Then he snaps 'Mr Keith' and Willie immediately salutes him.

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I rather doubt there would've been too many ship's inspections by admirals during the war. At least, there wouldn't have been many in the forward operating areas, where the Caine was usually deployed. In the book, it mentions that the time the ship was spending at Pearl Harbor when Willie came aboard was almost an anomaly. For most of the war it had been at sea and operating in the forward areas (i.e. the combat zones) and had been in a lot of combat. The admirals wouldn't be carrying out exacting inspections on relatively minor vessels in combat zones. New vessels just being commissioned yes. But ships like the Caine in the combat zone? Most unlikely.

I also have a feeling that if an inspection HAD been scheduled it would have been during a prolonged time in port or a rear area. Then I'm certain DeVriess would've ordered the ship made as clean as possible as they now could spare the time and effort.

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DeVriess was a competent captain who did well with what he was given (the Caine).

His purpose in both the book and the movie was to show the maturation of Willie Keith. While DeVriess was captain, Willie thought he ran a slovenly ship and welcomed DeVriess's transfer and replacement by Queeg, who Willie thought would be a great disciplinarian who would whip the Caine into shape. After a few months of Queeg, Willie saw through him and recognized he was a martinet - then when he was asked what DeVriess was like, he said that DeVriess had been a grand guy, a great commanding officer, showing how much Willie Keith had changed in just a few months.

Note how in the book, when there was more room for plot, after Queeg was relieved and after the court martial, Tom Keefer became captain and eventually turned into a tyrannical Queeg-like captain, while in the movie, when Keith reported to a new ship, he found his captain was . . . DeVriess!

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Yeah, in the book, Willie actually smiles to himself as he realizes how his opinion about DeVriess had changed.

Even prior to Queeg coming aboard, Willie visited their sister ship, the Moulton when in port to visit his friend from midshipman school, Keggs (who was never in the film). There, the captain is "Iron Duke" Sammis, a martinet who has every officer quivering in fear. However, while the Moulton is a neat and clean ship, it had dropped a paravane on minesweeping exercises, while the Caine had led the other ships in performance. As well, Willie sees that compared to Sammis, DeVriess is lazily benevolent.

At the end, Keefer recognizes that he's acting like Queeg. However, he says that he now feels an immense amount of sympathy for Queeg as he can now see that command of a ship is a nightmare in that any mistake could conceivably kill every man on board. He feels that knowledge is what ate away at Queeg.

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Yes, Willie had a lot of growing up to do and the real theme of the book was his going from an adolescent mother's boy to a mature young man. This was only touched on in the film by his reaction to DeVriess and DeVriess seeing the change in him and telling him to "take her out".

During the same period Wouk wrote Caine Mutiny he wrote Marjorie Morning star about a young girl evolving from star struck adolescent to a mature young woman.

Willie's initial opinion of DeVriess seems to be typical of a young person's attitude toward their first boss. It is typical of them to compare them to some unrealistic criteria. At the time they consider their first manager the worst possible manager possible. Years later and a few managers later, they may realize he was actually the best manager they ever had.

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The film never really showed Willie growing into a competent officer. The book allowed him to actually become the captain of the Caine as the war ended.

Willie's dislike of DeVriess is described later on as a boyish pique. DeVriess was like a schoolteacher who was hard on an underachieving student he knows can do better. I suspect that if Willie had spent more time under DeVriess, he would have grown to see him as a very competent and humane commanding officer.

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I think they did try to show those things in a very abbreviated anemic way. Keith finally stood up to his mother about his girl friend and Captain DeVriess had him take the new ship out of the port. But even this scene with DeVriess was made hokey by having a comic ships whistle sound off as if to say "here we go again". Instead of showing what should have been an eye to eye moment showing Keith had matured and that DeVriess recognized this change in him, they went for some cheap humor

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As a Merchant Marine Officer, I have seen my share of officers who shared similar personality traits to the officers seen in this film, and watching Keith walk aboard the Caine for the first time it brought back memories of the fear and uncertainty I felt as a new officer meeting my "bosses" for the first time.

Queeg might have been burned out, or unsure of himself. My first Master was a major pain in the ass, and most of us felt it was not so much that he was messed up psychologically, rather he was unsure of himself and his abilities and took it out on everyone else.

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Yeah, in the book Queeg is only about 30 years old and the Caine is his first command. He's definitely nervous and unsure of himself...and he tragically refuses to heed the advices of his officers. What's more, the stress of command eventually finished him. He'd performed well as a subordinate, but -as Keefer points out at the end when he himself becomes captain- when you're in command all it takes is one mistake and you could kill everyone on board the ship.

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There was an interesting part in the book that didn't make it into the movie-they went into a bit of detail about what Willie thought of the Caine beating the spit-and-polish Navy ships with the paravane drill. Devriess seemed to me to be the best kind of commander-the kind that gets results, keeps the ship running and gets it where it needs to be, and commands the loyalty and respect of the men. My dad was in the Navy and he always said he'd go around the world with Devriess and he wouldn't want to get in a rowboat with Queeg.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

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The Navy evidently liked DeVriess, giving him promotion and another sea command, so there were no serious doubts about his captaincy skills. But I did wonder about the state of the Caine and its crew when first seen.

Yes, the USA was fighting the most serious war in its history, so spit and polish were not top priority, but would you like to serve in such a scruffy vessel with such a disreputable looking crew? Didn’t the apparent slackness under DeVriess infect his officers, inclining them to what was in effect a conspiracy against the more perfectionist Queeg?

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Let's all remember that the Caine was a floating dump---even DeVriess told Queeg it should be melted down for dimes! This fillm is not focused on one of the main line battleships, or state-of-the-art aircraft carriers . . . and let's get real--the Caine was not staffed with top grade, or "real" navy . . . I guess they thought Queeg would serve just right here (not realizing he may have been suffering from PTSS)--he'd serve out his time quietly on this forgotten, forlorn ship . . . DeVriess may have been perfect for this old tub . . .

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In the book, soon after Queeg takes command (while they're in San Francisco) there's a huge shake-up in their squadron's command. Most of the Regular officers (i.e. Annapolis graduates) are transferred, including the original Executive Officer, Lieutenant Gorton. Maryk -a Reserve officer- becomes Executive Officer and much the same thing happens all over their DMS squadron. The old ships are passing into the hands of the Reserve officers, while Annapolis men are being sent to the new, big ships. So, Queeg was almost an anomaly -a Naval Academy graduate left to linger on an outdated ship of a class that was now being commanded by Reserves.

Another thing to bear in mind was that what turned the officers against Queeg wasn't that he was strict about relatively minor matter or that he had some eccentricities. What lost him the respect of the wardroom was that he was perceived as incompetent and cowardly. Almost immediately, they saw he was a very poor ship handler who made mistakes and then blamed them on subordinates. What's worse was the Yellowstain Incident during the invasion or Roi-Namur.

Harding sums it up to Willie right afterwards. He says that he's not bothered by Queeg's nagging about paperwork or petty orders. What bothers him is that Queeg doesn't seem to have the stomach to competently take the ship through combat. The officers had no problem with a far stricter captain than DeVriess. However, they DID have a problem with him showing cowardice during the invasion.

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DeVriess would have gotten low marks on his yearly performance review based upon the condition of the ship and crew and most probably never commanded another ship the rest of his career. But it was wartime and lots of things are overlooked for men with experience.

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Actually, it's implied that DeVriess, when relieved, is assigned to "new construction" back in the United States. Meaning, he's being assigned to a ship that's still being built and he will be tasked with putting it into commission, seeing it throught its sea trials and taking it to sea for the first time. It's considered a great honour for a captain to be a "plankowner". (i.e. A ship's first captain.) He surely wouldn't have been considered for that posting if his skills as a captain weren't considered top rate; as he would not only have to get the ship working properly but mould the officers and crew (who'd all be serving together for the first time with many fresh from training and on their first assignment) into an effective team.

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