TV Guide interview with Ellen Wheeler- by Mike Logan

Some consider her a saint. Some consider her a show killer. Guiding Light executive producer Ellen Wheeler’s much-hyped, much-maligned new production model (launched in February 2008) was supposed to make the struggling serial more relevant, youthful and accessible. Had her raw, radical, slice-of-life vision worked, she would have been heralded as the savior of the industry. Instead, it accelerated viewer fallout and, in time, led to the show’s cancellation. Still, there’s no question that Wheeler busted her balls for GL and is loved and revered by most of the cast. The former actress (she won Emmys for Another World and All My Children) was a veritable dynamo the day I visited the set—breathlessly dashing here, there and everywhere, directing all sequences, supervising the set décor, reworking scripts and troubleshooting like crazy. For a while, it looked like the big outdoor double wedding (Billy & Vanessa, Buzz & Lillian) would be forced inside due to a rainstorm, the kind of logistical nightmare that would make a primetime or movie director crumble. Not Wheeler. She was unfazed and ready with plan B (and probably C and D) and feverishly focused on bringing the two-episode event in on time and on budget, no excuses accepted. Understandably, she was too busy to be interviewed that day, so we talked by phone after the final episode wrapped. Does she have regrets? Would she have done things differently? Don’t bet on it.

ML: Once you knew you were cancelled and there was no hope of moving GL elsewhere, how did you go about the task of wrapping up all that history?
With as much grace and dignity as possible, I hope. This show has such a long, rich history that all we can hope to achieve in these final days is a sense of resolution rather than conclusion. As difficult as it was to be cancelled, we were grateful that we had five months before we went off the air, which allowed us to look at all the characters and relationships and stories and try to find a satisfying way to bring things to a place where we and the audience could let this part of GL go. It’s satisfying but not the end, because Springfield will go on eternally.

MLl How did you decide which former characters to bring back in the final weeks?
Some of it had to do with who was available but, more important, who could fit into the stories we currently have on the show. We couldn’t bring back some people, like Reva’s sister Cassie, because their stories were too huge and there was too much that would need explaining. We had 35 current characters to wrap up, and even then we ran out of time and couldn’t bring resolution to all of them—like Remy’s parents, Clayton and Felicia.

ML: Surely you’re aware that the “Otalia” fanbase is unhappy with the couple’s lack of physical intimacy. Any response to the complaints that you got cold feet?
I am very satisfied with where Natalia and Olivia end up. Their story came into being when I was asking for [more] romance on the show. And I’m not just talking about flowers and candles and sexual romance. I mean a romance in the sense that love is this grander, broader spectrum through which we look at all things. We wanted to explore the romantic nature of all kinds of love, between parents and children, between friends. Just watching Olivia and Natalia become friends was so precious.

ML: But why so stingy with the kisses?
In developing the end of their story, I found myself wishing we had another year to watch all parts of their relationship as it bloomed and changed. But we did as much as we could on the way out.

ML: The new production model obviously didn’t save GL but do you think other soaps will in any way benefit from what happened here?
I think we achieved a level of nuance and naturalism that is to be admired. But I want to stop you: That’s a little bit of a misnomer there, because [the production model] did save GL for a year and a half.

ML: I’ve seen you quoted elsewhere saying that same thing, and I don’t get it. When this new production model was launched I clearly remember it being promoted as a way to move GL into the future, using information culled from research groups about what today’s viewers want to see on their soaps. It was not stated that the show would be cancelled if you didn’t go with this production model.

I can tell you absolutely that it kept the show on the air. We could not have stayed in the [previous] model with the budget cuts that came down, so something had to change. And the change was going to have to be drastic and enormous. I’m not saying it had to be this exact model, but this was the one we came up with and we had to come up with it pretty quickly. But without taking those budget cuts we were going to be cancelled.

[Logan note: Okay, I’m not that nuts! I went back and looked at my interview with Wheeler in the February 25, 2008 issue of TV Guide Magazine, in which she told me that the switch to the new production model followed a two-year viewer research project conducted by Procter & Gamble. Here’s what she said: “Our audience has been very clear to us. They don’t like the nonreality of soaps—the fake grass, the fact that people in Springfield never seem to go to work or actually do their jobs or take care of their children. They want the stories and characters they love but with the same sense of reality they get from Grey’s Anatomy and other nighttime shows.” Wheeler then ended the interview with: “This is not a desperate survival move. This is a creative, financially efficient way to move soap operas into the future. GL has always led the way.”]


ML: You’ve certainly set new standards for how flexible actors and crew can be. Being on the set was a total guerilla experience. I’ve never seen so many people flying by the seat of their pants.
I’m so proud of everyone at GL. They each looked around and saw how many people were involved in this show and dependent on their jobs, and it’s like they all took this communal leap. They didn’t just do it for themselves, they did it for everyone’s benefit. It was a scary leap, but they did it.

ML: Any regrets? If you could climb into a time machine and go back two years, what would you change?
It’s hard to say that I would do very much differently. At the time, we thought through as many possible scenarios as we could and came up with the one we felt was best at the time. I really like where the show ended up. I like the show! I like running into fans who say “I’ve never watched soap operas before but when I was flipping through the channels and I saw GL, I didn’t know what it was, but I started watching.” They started watching when it became something new! I thought we got to a marvelous place where all the elements were starting to really come together, so I don’t know that I would change very much.

ML: I think people were surprised that [CBS Daytime chief] Barbara Bloom didn’t seem to know the cancellation was imminent and expressed shock when it happened. Word is, she was on your set—not long before the ax came down – expressing confidence that you guys would get a pickup.
There are people above in every corporate structure. I can’t talk about what happens at CBS. I know for a fact how devoted P&G Productions has been to keeping their shows on the air. I’m not involved with the network. It would be up to them to answer that.

Logan note: Bloom was invited to take part in TV Guide’s coverage of GL’s exit from the airwaves but her press rep at CBS did not want to relay the request if I was going to revisit the topic of cancellation. The rep was only willing to put in the request to Bloom if my angle was “what people loved about the show.” So that went no further.

ML: Were you shocked?
That the show was cancelled?

ML: No, that Bloom was so out of the loop at CBS? That the network programmer who approved—and, we can assume, instigated—the extreme makeover of GL wasn’t involved in the ultimate fate of the show? Doesn’t this suggest that the empress has no clothes? This summer, [CBS Entertainment President] Nina Tassler got up on stage at TCA [the TV critics’ press tour] and pretty much signed the death warrant for As the World Turns. Maybe I’m reading too much into this, but there seems to be an increasing disconnect between the true powers-that-be and the network’s daytime division.
I am never surprised by anything that goes on in corporate America. At the same time, I do understand that there is a bottom line and [deciding where that line is] is somebody else’s job. I’m glad it’s not been my job. I’m glad my job has been about telling stories.

ML: The end of GL has triggered much talk in the media about the death of soaps.
We had a tribute to GL at the Paley Center and a lot of our actors were talking about how the ’80s were the heyday of soap operas. But here’s what’s interesting: If you had talked to actors who came from the generation before this, they’d say that the heyday of soaps was the ’70s. The truth is, the heyday of soaps—ratings-wise—was actually the ’60s. We think soaps have been on a decline since the ’90s, but that’s not true. We’ve been on a decline since the ’60s—that’s four decades!—and here it is 2009 and soap operas are still here. That doesn’t make us a fast-sinking ship! It makes us a miracle! While other genres come and go, like sitcoms and westerns and doctor shows, we have remained. I guess I’m feeling honored to be a part of something that has found its way through so much, through so many trying times, and for so long.

ML: It’s sort of hip and flip these days to call soaps “dinosaurs” when, in fact, the dinosaurs lasted longer than anything else on this planet.
We’ve offered a historic breadth, a retrospective view of America for 72 years. Since before World War II we have been reflecting American life back at America and that’s an astounding thing. It’s sad for that to come to a close. I do understand that there is an almost hysterical scramble to figure out what’s next, but it should be acknowledged how amazing it is that soap operas have made it this far! It should be heralded! It shouldn’t be about “Look how soaps are failing.” No! It should be, “Look at how soaps have succeeded!” Now that should be the big media story.

ML: Well said.
GL had been seriously on the chopping block for 12 years. Instead of living in terror every day, we enjoyed every moment we had together. We didn’t know if we had two more months or 20 more years but we were not going to spend that time being terrified. We spent it loving each other and loving telling our stories to the audience. We made the decision to do that and we stuck to it. As sad as this is, most of us feel humbled to be part of this incredible show that was started by Irna Phillips. [Long pause. She chokes up and starts to cry.] To have been given the opportunity to work with this particular, very talented and courageous group of people—who were willing to take something this big to its conclusion—was the most blessed experience of my life.