Hoping someone can clear this up for me:
At the end of She Wore a Yellow Ribbon, Ben Johnson's character Trooper Travis Tyree had only two weeks until he got out of the cavalry, but he's in this movie. I understand that John Wayne played two different characters, but I'm assuming Travis Tyree is the same guy as they have the same name. Does She Wore a Yellow Ribbon take place before Rio Grande?
I've always felt it was a different character but with the same really cool name.
Both films take place after the Civil War, but the Tyree in "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon" was a veteran, while the Tyree of "Rio Grande" was a new recruit.
You can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead.
Thanks for taking the time to reply. Your answer makes sense, but didn't John Wayne's wife make reference to Tyree buring down a village under Wayne's command 15 years ago? Also Tyree was training the new recruits, so I don't see how he could be a new recruit himself.
share> didn't John Wayne's wife make reference to Tyree buring down a village under Wayne's command 15 years ago? Also Tyree was training the new recruits, so I don't see how he could be a new recruit himself. <
'Twas Quincannon who was the "arsonist" in the Shenandoah Valley during the "late unpleasantness," as they used to call it in the south.
Tyree and Boone weren't training the new recruits, they were showing off to the sargents and the other "boots."
jc
Right you are! Sorry about that, the IMDB photo of Ben Johnson looked to me like Quincannon in the movie so I got the characters mixed up. I didn't realize Victor McLaglen was in both movies as well (there was a few months in between watching them).
Sorry for the mixup, I should have asked what was up with Quincannon still being in the cavalry. He was the one that went to jail for fighting just before leaving the army in She Wore a Yellow Ribbon, correct?
>> I should have asked what was up with Quincannon still being in the cavalry. He was the one that went to jail for fighting just before leaving the army in She Wore a Yellow Ribbon, correct? <<
Ford's "Trilogy" was very informal -- notice that York/Yorke was spelled differently in Apache/Grande, and Wayne's charactor was completely different in all three.
Quinncannon was evidently a favorite name for Ford -- it was used in all three of the (first) trilogy films (Dick Foran was Sgt. Q. in Apache)and it showed up at least one other time: Ford did a short recruiting/morale film for the Navy c. '56 called The Growler Story in which Ward Bond played Chief Petty Officer Quinncannon.
So, while the name and the actor remained the same, the charactor was different.
jc
cool, thanks replying.
shareFord's Cavalry Trilogy is informal in the sense that it deals with archetypal army characters in each film's unique setting, story, army unit, circumstances, and relationships; hence Ford's recycling of character names out of chronological and contextual sequence - or out of just plain old common sense.
shareIn fact, both Fort Apache and She Wore A Yellow Ribbon close with statements to that effect. The names and faces are interchangeable, but the regular army continues on.
There would have been lots of Quincannon's in the US army of the period as there were in the British Army. The Irish have fought in most wars, not infrequently on both sides!
shareYork's final speech in Fort Apache and the ending narration of "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon" kind of explain it. Essentially both pretty much say the cavalry is the real main character. The individual soldiers are interchangeable, but the regiment goes on. If a couple of names get mixed up, that's not the important part.
shareBen Johnson was one of my favorite actors since "Wagon Master". He just seemed to be the perfect cowboy.
Imagine my dismay when my wife came home from work one night and mentioned that she had witnessed his will that afternoon. Her boss was an attorney and friend of Mr. Johnson. I was so mad at her because I could have 'just happened' to have been there when he arrived.
He passed away not long thereafter and I never did get a chance to meet him.
I may forgive her, in time.
The Tyree character in She Wore A Yellow Ribbon and Rio Grande could not have been the same. The Tyree of "Yellow Ribbon" (set in 1876) was a former captain in the Confederate Cavalry. The Tyree of "Rio Grande" (set in 1880) was a new recruit on the run from the law in Texas.
It's possible that Quincannon was the same character (both were top soldiers), but not likely as both characters had served in the Civil War with their same present commander (Quincannon of "Ribbon" with Briddles at Bull Run and Quincannon of "Grande" with Yorke at the raid through the Shenandoah Valley).
Ben Johnson had a voice that made you beleive you were in the West in the space his first half a syllable.
I could listen to his voice all day.
There is a rough chronological sequence to John Wayne's cavalry triolgy.
"Fort Apache" seems to occur prior to Custer's Last Stand which occurred in July 1876. We know this because early in the movie Colonel Thursday complains of being relegated to controlling a bunch of "Digger Indians" while other officers are fighting against the great warlike tribes of the Sioux and Cheyenne. This implies Custer is still alive. {The Sioux were broken within months of Custer's defeat by a massive combination of U.S. Army forces}.
"She wore a Yellow Ribbon" {1949} is the most explicit in its time references. It is set right after Custer's defeat in July 1876. as the narrator tells us and Captain Brittle's calendar shows us.
While "Rio Grande" {1950} makes no mention of its time, the major campaigns against the Apaches occurred in the 1880s after the passing of Cochise from the scene. Also, the Union army under General Phil Sheridan destroyed the economy of the Shenandoh Valley, a major source of food for General Lee's army, beginning on on Sept. 24, 1864. The 15 years referred to would thus be at least at the end of the 1870s.
Thus, the three films serve as a kind of rough history of the campaigns against the western tribes after the Civil War.
The great Ben Johnson was still a stuntman in "Fort Apache". John Ford first put him under contract as an actor for " She wore a Yellow Ribbon", making him a member of his ensemble. He obviously liked Johnson's character so- much he reprised the role in "Rio Grande" despite the chronological impossibility. John Ford was a good amateur historian, but he never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Blaine in Seattle
The three films of Ford's "Cavalry Trilogy" are very high on my list of favorites. However, I never new anything about the historical connections. Thank you very much.
The great Ben Johnson was still a stuntman in "Fort Apache". John Ford first put him under contract as an actor for " She wore a Yellow Ribbon", making him a member of his ensemble.
This had me wondering as I was watching Grande last night. Did Ben Johsnson actually do that stand on the saddle and jump the fence himself or did he have to relinquish stunts when he came under contract?
But throughout it all, my motto was "Dignity! Always dignity!".
Per Ben Johnson, Dobe Carey, Chuck Heyward, and Duke himself; Ben, Dobe, and Claude Jarman actually rode "like the ancient Romans" around the track.
Ben commented on how easy it was for Claude Jarman to stay upright ont the horses because of his huge feet.
You can tell from the way Ford shot the scene (no cutaways or cheesy closeups) that no one was substituted for the three main players.
GREAT scene!!!
Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway. John Wayne
I heard on the commentary Johnson did the stunt himself.
shareThe screenwriters felt free to re-use names which obviously fit their characters, but they were not necessarily the same character. The better argument for the same person is Wayne's character, a captain in "Fort Apache" and a lieutenant colonel in "Rio Grande'. Tyree is just as obviously two different people, just the same name and same actor. Sgt. Tyree (no first name) was a CSA cavalry captain in the Civil War. Travis Tyree is a Texas recruit on the run from the law and hiding in the Army.
As for timelines, there is no date to "Fort Apache" but one could surmise it was approx. 1867-68, with references to the "late war", Thursday's Lt. Colonelcy (like Custer's in 1867), the use of Cochise as a main figure, etc. (altho not necessarily--an argument could also be made that like the Custer story it mimics, it took place C. 1876). In "She Wore a Yellow River", however, the year is 1876, sometime just before the onset of winter. In "Rio Grande" the year is not stated, but has to be 1879 (Sheridan rode down the Shenandoah in the fall of 1864, and the movie is set 15 years later). Therefore SWAYR takes place three years before RG. Nevertheless the two Tyree characters are not the same except by a considerable and pointless stretch.
Ben Johnson was a real, bonifide cowboy. Huston discovered him when he was driving horses to the set to be used in the movie. Wayne and Huston had an entourage of charactor actors that were in nearly every one of the Dukes movies.
I stand corrected below and thanks. Yes, also a stuntman. I forgot to mention that. I have read books about him.
I think you meant John Ford, not Huston. Yeah, they had quite a stable of actors. I love the autobiography by Harry Carey, Jr. It's called "Company of Heroes, My Life as an Actor in the John Ford Stock Company".
shareShe Wore a Yellow Ribbon takes palce after Custer's last Stand 0n June 25, 1876, and in November 1876 according to captain Brittle's calendar.
Rio Grande is 15 years after Sheridan's Shenendoah Valley devastation, in about Oct. 1864, and thus take place in 1879-1880.
Mrs. Yorke's plantation was burned down then, although there were no plantations in the Shenendoah Valley, a place of family farms. If the characters mean that the house was burned as well as the barns, that would be a very special case. If the house was burned, either someone exceeded his orders by burning it, or someone had shot from he house at union soldiers.
Ben Johnson was a great Western actor and the real deal. He got his just reward as Best Male Supporting Actor in the wonderful The Last Picture Show in 1971 playing the owner of a run down pool hall and cinema. Thanks Mr Ford for encouraging him to do the picture.
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