MovieChat Forums > The Honeymooners (1955) Discussion > Main complaint

Main complaint

posted 8 years ago by mastro726-1
16 replies | jump to latest

A great show no doubt, except for one obvious but HUGE problem. Domestic violence should NEVER be funny. And please folks don't say I'm being just "politically correct". I never found Ralph's "bang zoom' to be funny at all. And that was his "cutest" reference to smacking his wife. He would also threaten her by saying " your gonna get yours " Another time, addressing his mother-in-law he flat out wished as he said " would I like to punch you just once ", and with his fist closed at that. Also Ed too, when Ralph says "what does a woman fall for most, Ed says " a left hook ", yeah real funny. And the line too " if my wife Trixie is watching this and when I get home she says I told you so, I'm gonna belt her right in the mouth ". I know for some it's hard to admit that this otherwise funny show had this TERRIBLE flaw, but it absolutely did. Then again should I just accept it because the show aired in those great old days of the 1950's ?

[–] cind5 8 years ago

Yes. Or don't watch it. Ralph never hit Alice or her mother-in-law, neither did Ed. I watched Carol Burnett show and I saw Harvey Korman and Tim Conway hit Carol for a laugh in a couple of sketches. I guess they were less enlightened than Jackie Gleason.

Spenser with an "S", like the poet.

[–] yellowrose21 8 years ago

Some people say that. Of course there is nothing funny about domestic abuse. But who always had the last laugh with sarcastic quips? Alice. How did almost every episode end? With the famous, "Baby, you're the greatest," and then they embrace. Norton was the one with a lump on his head after Trixie "lumped him." Seems like she was more aggressive than anyone. The Honeymooners was basically based on Jackie's growing up in Brooklyn so he heard remarks and arguments like that. In I Love Lucy Ricky would spank Lucy. This would not fly today obviously but all that "Bang zoom" stuff was done in good humor but the writers were smart by giving Alice the last word.

[–] mastro726-1 8 years ago

Well I guess you do see my point somewhat. Yes Alice stood her ground and good for her , and yes there were some very tender moments between them. It's just that I can't get by the fact that Ralph always had his fist balled up and was at least prepared to belt her. I know it's all fictional but I was always left to wonder of the times he could have actually gone through with his threat to " send her to the moon " Imagine if you will how many men who saw the show and said to himself if it was good enough for Ralph or Gleason ....?

[–] yellowrose21 8 years ago

I think she would have sent him to the moon first, or at least kneed him or something. One reason Sheila MacRae did not make a great Alice was because she was softer, and her character would sometimes cry. Audrey was not that way, mainly due to her own strong character, and always stood her ground. She (Alice) was not intimidated by his words. Even Audrey admitted that some of the words Alice said to Ralph were a little rough and she did not like saying those insults, but the arguments they had were based on what Jackie heard as a child in Bushwick. I hope people were not encouraged by the show to put their fist up at their spouse, whether it be a man or woman, unless in a joking manner. Fortunately, for all the marital issues he had, I've never heard anything about Jackie being abusive with women or his children.

[–] mastro726-1 8 years ago

Thanks for replying yellowrose21....I suppose the main point of contention here is this. Can waving a fist at someone you supposedly love ever be humorous? Sorry, but as for myself I can't see it. Just what were the writers or Gleason thinking? And childhood experiences shouldn't influence some poor choices when your broadcasting to millions. Gleason was a great one... but with this terrible flaw.

[–] yellowrose21 8 years ago

I can't say what the writers were thinking, perhaps they were taking advice from Jackie. But two of the most well known quotes in TV history are "You're going to the moon, Alice" and "Bang, zoom." The audience loved it and people still say it today when they think of The Honeymooners. I don't recall reading the issue of abuse arose during the run of The Honeymooners, if it was I believe the writers would have taken those lines out. I understand what you are saying. I imagine there have also been many wives who have threatened to send their husbands to the moon (in a joking manner). Keep in mind also they had no idea this show would still be showing in 2016, and obviously so much with censors have changed. But compared to so much of what is on TV today with real violence it was mild.

[–] mastro726-1 8 years ago

The fact that many people or even a majority of people got a chuckle out of Ralph's threats of violence, or any shows, does not make it a healthy thing to air on T.V. In the 1950s or anytime. And to excuse it as a product of it's time kind of supports what I'm saying. Something like that aspect of the Honeymooners could never fly on T.V. today. Jackie Gleason was a multi talented beloved entertainer, and the Honeymooners was one of his many achievements. I'm positive the show would have been just as funny without his need to always threaten to have the last word over Alice by knocking her unconscious. And I will ask it again, exactly what is it that you or anyone finds funny in that ??

[–] stones78 8 years ago

Agreed to an extent, but Alice always "wins" in the end. I even tease my wife about belting her, then she says she'll punch me in the nose.

[–] movieghoul 8 years ago

What's funny is that it's an absolutely empty threat. Always "one of these days", never "now".

Alice is the boss of this household.

[–] yellowrose21 8 years ago

I find the "Bang, zoom" line the funniest. Once when Ralph said he said he was sending Alice to the moon she said even that would be an improvement (over their apartment). You saw a woman who was never afraid of her husband, she was obviously the smarter of the two, and she did not take his crap. But at the end there was always the embrace. I don't think this very empty threat is worse than Ricky Ricardo picking up Lucy and putting her over his knee and spanking her. But that got a lot of laughs too. The Honeymooners would be just as beloved as it is, but those lines are very iconic. The Alice Kramden on the moon cartoon is pretty funny as well.

[–] mastro726-1 8 years ago

Yes of course Ricky Ricardo spanking Lucy should NEVER have been thought up or aired and you never heard me say otherwise. It's no defense of Ralph's bullying, empty as you claim. The only thing that makes it "empty" I suppose is that he never actually smacked her in the show, but the fact that he thought to do it in every one is what's called assault. When you follow through that's assault and battery. So "bang,zoom" tickles your funny bone does it. The bottom line still remains, your laughing at a man who's threatening his wife with his fist. We will have to agree to disagree on what is funny.

[–] uoflcardfan2003 8 years ago

So the main complaint is Ralph threatening Alice, where does Alice's fat jokes, or Trixie actually being physically abusive toward Ed rank in the complaint department

[–] mastro726-1 8 years ago

Well fat jokes are fat jokes, some are somewhat funny but most of them I thought weren't but that doesn't compare with what is being discussed. I will say that the Trixie issue is worth thinking about. She was a woman that was portrayed as being violent off camera. She "lumped" Ed once and on another occasion she's heard to be throwing pots and pans at him. So the show delved into female physical abuse these two times also. It doesn't excuse Ralph's fist waving at all of course. I still maintain Gleason's Kramden would have been very funny without these excesses. One other aspect of his personality we could have done without was the times he would mutter under his breath " huh huh you dirty ole ". Never found that to be humorous also.

[–] uoflcardfan2003 8 years ago

Sort of along the same lines, how about when Alice's uncle was coming, but Ralph wanted to go with Norton to the fights, Ralph said he would miss the fight of the century, Alice responded that if he left, he'd be in the fight of the century, implying she'd kick his butt if he left, for whatever reason, times were different then, and spousal abuse was treated with a lot less political correctness, not just on this show, but others as well

[–] mastro726-1 8 years ago

I guess the episode you reference is a "lost" one because I don't recall it. Yes if she did speak it then there be an example of Alice threatening violence. I was wondering when the political correctness charge would be made. If you check my early comments I was asking that it not be used but there you go. What does that really mean anyways ? All I was saying was that the Honeymooners was a great show, but that it's too bad that the writers had to make Ralph such a bully, empty threats or not. Also I don't recall many shows of the comedic nature back then that had a character constantly waving his fist at his spouse.

[–] uoflcardfan2003 8 years ago

My PC charge was more of a sarcastic nature, but yes, it was a lost episode, I believe the title was Tickets to the Fights, or Two Tickets to the Fights