B-17 crash


What amazes me is the b-17 crash in the openning. In 1949 that plane was just so much outdated (superceded by the B-29) war surplus. Today that plane would be priceless. I remember when Memphis Bell came out, there were only 5 flyable B-17s on Earth...and they wrecked one (accidentally) making the movie!!

I would definately put this movie in my Top5 best war movies of all time. My No. 1? "Thirty Second's Over Tokyo". Because it was made during the war (the outcome of which was far from certain) there wasn't any John-Wayne-Over-The-Top heroics, and it was a true story (using newsreel footage from the actual raid) told with remarkable accuracy.

But back to "Twelve O'clock High". I found it remarkable after watching, how 90% of the movie had no explosions or classic war movie elements yet it was just as revitting.

Ken

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It was famed stunt pilot Paul Mantz who crash-landed a surplus B-17 for that unforgettable scene in 12 O'Clock High. Like you, I have reflected over the years on all those B-17s that were melted down, blown up, shot up, and otherwise destroyed in the years immediately following World War II. If only someone with vision and foresight could have seen how valuable they would become...

I agree that this is a terrific movie, one of the best ever made about the war. The authors of the story, Sy Bartlett and Beirne Lay, based it on their own wartime experiences, and most of the incidents depicted on the screen actually happened to real B-17 crews. Made only 6 years after the events depicted in the movie occurred, there is an authenticity here that is missing from later films about the Army Air Force in World War II.

(Compare this with the silly, juvenile BS in "Memphis Belle", where the navigator gets drunk the night before a mission and the crew argues with the pilot!)

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Hey guys,
Just a note to tell you about the Memphis Belle. She is in a hangar in Millington Tennessee(just north of Memphis)being restored to her former glory. The Air Force Museum is thinking about taking her away to Dayton. They have said they will not address all the corrosion and other issues but just paint her up for display. This could be the death of this aircraft. The plane was at Altus in line for the crusher when the people of Memphis saved her in 1946. The Memphis Belle Memorial Association was formed in 1976 to take care of her. They plan to build her a museum in Memphis and take care of her from now on. Please visit the website and join the cause. Membership dues are very low. Your voice could be instrumental in saving her. WWW.Memphisbelle.com We need your help. Also tell anyone who is a WWII buff or into aircraft. Thanks for the ear.
Eddy Comer
Facilities Lead
Jim Webb Restoration Center
8101 Hornet Ave.
Millington Tn. 38053
901-873-3121

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I had a chance to hear Capt. Bob Morgan (pilot of the Memphis Belle) speak at a small booksigning here in town about a year ago. He published his autobiography just a short time ago, just before his death. Inevitably, the question of the movie came up. He just laughed it off. He stated that there were a great many things that just never would have happened (co-pilot leaving the cockpit, the tomato soup, etc.), and that if any mission he's ever gone on had been like the one depicted, he'd probably have died of a heart attack!
Of course, this is from a guy who flew between the city hall and court house buildings of downtown Asheville, NC. Sideways. In a B-17.
He also hated to see what was happening to the Belle in later years. Definitely worth the preservation effort.

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Hi, fellow Twelve O' Clock High fans! I graduated high school in Fort Walton Beach, Florida in 1974 and have poked around some of the sites where the movie was filmed. Most of the 918th Bomb Group's base and flightline scenes were filmed at Eglin Auxiliary Field No. 3, known as Duke Field, north of the Eglin main base about eight miles south of Crestview, Florida just east of Okaloosa County Road C-85 which runs north-south through the extensive Eglin reservation. The briefing Quonset hut was still standing in the late 1970s and served as a small base theatre. The 711th Special Operations Squadron equipped with MC-130 and AC-130 Hercules is based there. The airfield has been used for "black" operations by the CIA off and on up through the early 1990s, according to "Foreign Invaders - The Douglas Invader in foreign military and US clandestine service" by Dan Hagedorn and Leif Hellstrom (pages 133, 171) (Midland Publishing Ltd., 1994). This is also where YMC-130H 74-1683 made its spectacular crash landing on 29 October 1980 during a demonstration for the planned rescue of the Iranian hostages, film of which can be found on certain aviation websites. (Lockheed C-130 Production List by Lars Olausson, annually self-published in Sweden.) For security reasons, the base is closed to the public.

Paul Mantz's amazing single-handed crash landing was performed at the inactive Dothan Army Air Field in southern Alabama which is now Fort Rucker where Army helicopter training takes place. Dean Jagger is shown at the edge of this runway at the beginning and end of the movie at this airfield before they mowed it flat for flight operation scenes. The B-17 he belly-landed had been one of the drone squadron aircraft that had served in the Bikini tests in the Pacific to monitor radiation levels and which had been returned stateside after the nuclear blasts.

At the time of the filming, the Fort Walton Beach area was still a sleepy little fishing town. The film crew and stars stayed at a now-demolished set of motel bungaloes named "St. Simon's by the Sound" on the north side of the Intracoastal Waterway along Highway 98 just west of Fort Walton in what is now known as Mary Esther, Florida. This little business survived into the 1980s before it was razed. Local history books in FWB show photos of Gregory Peck being entertained at a nightspot known for decades as the Shalimar Club just south of Eglin main base which was a red-velvet cliche of a casino in the days before gambling was outlawed in Florida circa 1967. The ratty Shalimar Club stood on Eglin Parkway in Shalimar, Florida into the late 1980s as I recall before it was finally demolished. A real estate office now sits on the site.

I hope this is of interest to y'all! Also I would note that 28 July 2005 will mark the 70th anniversary of the first flight of the Boeing Model 299 which evolved into our beloved "Flying Fortress."

Mark Sublette
Falls Church, Virginia

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Great job of reporting, Mark. An aviation magazine 15-20 years ago did an excellent story on the making of "12 O'Clock High" and corroborates everything you've written here.

Sometimes the story of the making of the movie is almost as dramatic and interesting as the movie itself.

The movie is also interesting for the fact that Gregory Peck was only 33 years old at the time and did an excellent job in a role which might have otherwise required a more mature actor.

Ron in New Mexico, March, 2006

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Another footnote to the great crash sequence in "12 O'clock High" is the story that floats around about Paul Mantz buying the B-17s for the movie. I heard that he sold the fuel in them back to the government for more than what he paid for them. Don't know if that one is true or not.... One fact IS clear. The survivors that exist today are the planes he saved. Had this movie not been made, there might not be any flying today. Paul Mantz and Frank Tallman....two great men and aviators.

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Although a pile of surplus B-17s is a great fantasy, they are really too expensive for almost anyone to operate. Anyone that can operate one now pretty much is.

You could have a bunch of static displays, but not many would be flying at this point anyway. Plus a bigger quantity would mean that each one would be that much less valuable. Probably get a bunch of rich guys racing them at Reno or something, and crashing them anyway! ; )

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I can't cite the source, but I remember reading somewhere that the B-17 that was deliberately wrecked had previously been contaminated by radiation during tests on exposure to nuclear explosions and fallout, and that it could no longer continue to be flown long-term. It had to be scrapped anyway, and this movie gave it a glorious last hurrah.

My best friend and I both flew F-4 Phantoms in the Air Force in the late '70s and early '80s. My friend, in a complete serendipity, was visiting a friend who was in charge of the drone target program at Holloman AFB, NM. The friend showed him around, and as they entered a hangar, my friend saw "his" old plane (i.e. the one which had had his name on the canopy and which he'd flown the most) among the F-4s converted into target drones. (It was eerily similar to a scene in a novel my same friend himself had written twenty years earlier, where the hero, a P-51 pilot in WWII, finds his old mount on a flightline in Korea.) That led me to look up the tail number of "my" F-4 on the web, whereupon I confirmed my suspicion that it, too, had been converted into a drone. We had some long discussions over the phone (I live in Jersey and he lives in Texas) about it, and as my friend put it, better for them to die a warrior's death than to end up gutted and on a concrete slab at a base gate somewhere.

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You are correct. The Air Force in 1949 still had a few B-17s in its active inventory. Henry King personally scouted four airbase sites as possible locations for the fictional Archbury and one of them, Eglin, had 12 assigned. Another 4 were at Brookley AFB at Mobile, Alabama. 8 of the Eglin B-17s and all 4 of the Brookley aircraft were loaned to Fox for the filming. The aircraft that pancaked was one of the 4 from Brookley and had been part of Operation Crossroads, with residual radiation. Nevertheless, after the filming Fox returned it to the Air Force.

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I'm from Tucson, living in Chicago a long time now, and this topic has me wondering if there are no B-17 parts sitting in the AMARC facility at Davis-Monthan AFB boneyard. I know the Pima Air and Space Museum had a B-17 when I lived there.

(I discovered this movie after being a fan of the 1960's TV show, as a teenage girl. At that point, we were living in Grand Terrace, CA, between March AFB and Norton AFB, if that explains my interest any. Pretty much everybody on the block was a major or a colonel, and my friends were military kids...)

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I live near Houston, TX (Katy) and there's a CAF Chapter at a small airport near where I live (West Houston Airport). There's been several occassions where
a fully restored, flyable B-17 is flown in and put on display; once, back in
June 1996 my wife and I had the privilege of going through a nose to tail tour
inside this B-17. And, annually at Ellington Field, we have the Wings Over Houston Airshow, one of the largest of its kind in the US, and they have the
re-enactment of the Tora!Tora!Tora! attack of December 7, 1941. In this re-
enactment, B-17's (as well as other vintage, fully restored WW II aircrafts)
are running through their paces as if the attack is underway (with live ammo
fire, explosions on the ground, etc.). If you're in the Houston area in October, you should make an effort to attend the Wings Over Houston Airshow
(look it up on your search engine); it's worth the trip!

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Howdy Inland Empire Girl - I lived in Redlands, California when my father was assigned at Norton AFB in San Bernardino, and you are correct in guessing that AMARC has no B-17s on strength. The former MASDC facility pretty much disposed of the last of the WW II aircraft by 1959 - the final B-17s in the inventory being sold by bid, the last B-24 stored at Davis-Monthan AFB, "Strawberry Bitch", a -D model similar to the lost "Lady Be Good", being flown to Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio in May 1959, and the last B-25J in active service going to Niceville-Valparaiso, Florida where the Doolittle Raiders stayed in the Valparaiso Inn while training for the Tokyo Raid. That particular airframe, 44-30854, is now in the collection of the USAF Armaments Museum at Eglin AFB, marked as Jimmy Doolittle's aircraft, 40-2344. Even to this date, the Fort Walton Beach - Eglin AFB airline code is still VPS for Val-P, the community closest to Eglin Field in the 1930s.

Douglas AD-1 Skyraiders and B-26 Invaders, Curtiss C-46 Commandos, and Douglas C-47 Gooneybirds are the only other WW II-vintage types that I believe survived into the Vietnam War era. The first "official" loss of our experience in Southeast Asia was a C-47.

Mark*

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." - Benjamin Franklin

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Thanks, elijahbailey. I had no idea they disposed of the B-17's so long ago. (My favorite high school boyfriend lived in Redlands. It seemed a very nice town.)

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What a great thread of posts! As an aviation fanatic, I have enjoyed all of this very much. Just finished watching "12 O'Clock High" on Fox Movie Channel. Never get tired of seeing it. Thanks for all of those informative posts!

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Glad you found it useful! Be sure to check out some of the other Twelve O' Clock High threads, especially Significance of the "Leper Colony"!

Mark Sublette*
Falls Church, Virginia

"We're gonna need a bigger boat." - the late Roy Scheider

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lol..... I've seen the Strawberry Bitch! We used to spend summers with our Grandparents about an hour from Wright-Pat and Grandma took us to the museum there one summer. I was probably in 8th or 9th grade and my brother was four years younger - we just got the biggest kick (and giggle fits) over that one.... all I really remember was the name and a lovely lady with long strawberry blonde hair on the nose....

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I was an Air Force brat, and was born at Wright-Patt in 1956, and my mother would
take us to the old AF Museum location at Building 89 at Patterson Field. Although we moved from Fairborn when I was five, I have returned to the Dayton area several times, and paid my respects to the "Strawberry Bitch".

Mark*

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." - Benjamin Franklin

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