stupid indians?

Hey, duncmacdonald, here's some answers to the questions you brought up. Or at least I hope they answer them.

Brittles left Lt. Cohill and two squads behind at the Paradise River to buy them some time. C Troop needed to get back to Ft. Starke, and the Indians were following them as Ford shows in the different chiefs looking down on C Troop as they snake through the canyon. Then, as they're moving out you hear gunshots, which I assume means Cohill and Co. are under attack.

As for Tyree, one of my favorite characters, he's supposed to meet up with the Paradise River patrol and then head to Sudro's Wells where the stagecoach departs. They're supposed to get there and hold the stage so Mrs. Alshard and Olivia Dandridge can depart and get out of the area with the Indian tribes on the warpath.

And the fight scene, that's just John Ford being John Ford. In almost every movie he made, you'll find some unnecessary fight scene that has nothing to do with the story/plot. It was just his style. In this case, it gives Victor McLaglen a chance to show off his comedic chops. I'll agree though, the tone of the scenes doesn't always fit, but its entertaining if nothing else.

Hope this helps!

"Congratulations, Major. It appears that at last you have found yourself a real war." Ben Tyreen

There were some good points made about this movie (my all time favorite) but about Cpt. Brittles et al sneaking up on the gun runners in the Indian camp, they were Indians, not soldiers. Brave fighters, (the finest light cavalry in the world, to quote the film) but they were not into marching a guard post and other basic military procedures, I'll bet even Crazy Horse never got a snappy salute. Of course they were very good about sneaking up on soldiers who DID have guards posted but that's another topic.

When I watched the film I assumed that the fight scene was added as a decoy? John Wayne's character wanted to distract the men while he got back into uniform and slipped from the fort un-noticed?? This was the day he was supposed to be retiring...not going out on a mission. And his loyal sergeant would hardly have let him leave on his own. And Capt Brittles wanted the sergeant kept safe until his retirement hence why he asked for him to be kept in jail for the next 2 weeks! Or I could be entirely wrong......

Where IS this line in the movie?? I don't remember it.

Are you sure you're not thinking of the place in the movie when JW goes to see Pony that Walks with Ben Johnson (Tyree), and he leaves him with their horse, and tells him to locate the pony herd. He then walks toward the chief, and has the arrow shot at his feet by Red Shirt - he picks it up, breaks it in half, spits on it, and throws it back in his face (showing GREAT disrespect toward, and absolutely NO fear OF Red Shirt).

He then greets PTW, and says he saddened by what he sees - the young braves with war paint on, the drums beating war songs...PTW then says many will die. "Your young men - my young men" The women will sing the death song in the lodges tonight," and that he is and Nathan are too old for war, and that they should go way together and hunt buffalo and get drunk - let the young ones fight it out. Then JW agrees that they're too old for war, and then says that it's the old men's job to STOP wars. Upon hearing this, PYW sadly says goodbye to "Nathan, my brother." He knows that Nathan must do what he has to do, and that is basically it.

Of course, bloodshed is avoided, and, for the moment at least, order is restored

Nothing about numbers of warriors either old or young. Are you certain it was in THIS movie?

I don't act...I react. John Wayne

Actually, as Indian Wars deceased in frequency, the military capabilities of the Indians increased.

General George Crook said that the Indians were more dangerous with bows and arrows than with muskets, but they were really dangerous when they were armed with repeating rifles.

During the 1860s through the 1890s more and more Indians obtained repeating rifles. The US army used single shot rifles and carbines from 1873 to the late 1890s. So in much of the 1880s and 1890s the US army was greatly outnumbered by the Indian men who had superior firepower and yet there were very few Indian Wars.

Most fights between the Army and Indians in the post Civil War period were skirmishes and running fights between small bodies of men and casualties were usually light. And it was actually fairly easy to catch Indian camps by surprise as Indian men were warriors, not soldiers, and lax about security and discipline.

The scene in which the soldiers run off the Indian herd, without suffering any losses, reminds me of Ranald MacKenzie and his 4th Cavalry capturing the Comanche herd in Palo Duro Canyon during the Red River War. MacKenzie's capture, and destruction of the herd, by putting the Comanche afoot took the fight out of them and ended the war. MacKenzie was the greatest Indian fighting cavalryman of the post Civil War army but it seems only those who know their history are familiar with him.

In short I think SWAYR is among the most realistic of the pictures about the Indian Wars.