MovieChat Forums > The Heiress (1949) Discussion > After watching this a third time, I'm co...

After watching this a third time, I'm convinced...

posted 12 years ago by capital_letters
68 replies | jump to latest

...that he really did love her. I also think he was desperate for money and may not have been able to disentangle his feelings about her from his feelings about the security (and luxury!) she represented. After "squandering" his (modest) inheritance and failing to establish a career, I think he was reduced to bluff and charm, and when the reality of an elopement became imminent, he couldn't face the prospect of failing to provide for a woman he truly did care for. The film is deliberately ambiguous about his motives, of course - I know a lot of people point to the cigar-and-brandy scene as evidence of Morris's questionable character and essential duplicity, but I almost read that as an unconscious marking of territory and a somewhat passive-aggressive challenge to Dr. Sloper. I think Catherine was indelibly poisoned by the cynicism and cruelty of her father, and to preserve herself made a fatal, tragic mistake: she took her father's cutting words about her for the truth, and began to read Morris's attentions accordingly. She was triumphant at the end, but only if you consider a hollow capitulation to the vagaries of pride a triumph. She may very well have missed out on the love of her life.

[–] minisatellites 12 years ago

I thought so too! My mom thought i was nuts to feel sorry for him but i did. He was banging on that door and she would have none of it! I felt bad for her and him. It is probably one of my favorite movies of all time. Brilliantly acted of course but just such a great all around story.

[–] bron-tay 12 years ago

Absolutely not.

At best, he finally realized the value of love -- but he did not feel it.

He was washed up by that point, less plausible, less able to charm his way through life and fully aware that he was out of tricks and that Catherine was his last chance. He realized, after many failures and a few kicks in the teeth, that one's only chance for lifelong protection and security is love. THAT is why he wanted Catherine's.

What did you think when she said "He came back with the same lines"?

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Please put some dashes above your sig line so I won't think it's part of your dumb post.

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] rudykawa 12 years ago

That's the advantage for guys with bad character, they are charming enough to convince many people they aren't scum.
Montgomery Clift made a very good job. Don't know why he didn't like it according to the trivia section here.

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] rrb 12 years ago

@OP: you're very gullible. I hope you're not a single woman set to inherit a fortune.

[–] capital_letters 12 years ago

Gullible? Hardly. Knowing and wise, knowing and wise. Insightful & incisive. And a man. And a romantic. And not a self-satisfied, knee-jerk cynic.

I'm also very sincerely interested in the "fortunes" of sly, mousy heiresses...know any?

[–] sita_chez 12 years ago

without doubt rrb is right you are gullible. I am definitely a romantic and could see how much she loved him but he never loved her, at all!! he desperately wanted he fortune and once he thought he wouldnt get it he ran. Its ridiculous that you think he ever loved her, as others have stated once his charms ran out and her found out she was still alone he came running back thinking she would give him anything but she had finally learned.

he didnt even attempt a career ever he just wanted to live off her money, when her father took her away for 6 months I thought he would at least get a job somewhere even just till after they where married in order to convince her father and get the money but he didnt even attempt it.

honestly when he returned at the end I was somewhat sickened thinking its an old hollywood movie she's going to be stupid and take him back even though he only wants her money, why? coz thats what hollywood does right, makes the man get away with whatever and he still gets the girl even though he doesnt deserve her. when he said the same things and tried to kiss her and she turned I was made up, knowing she was going to make a fool of him this time, I was so utterly suprised that such a strong woman in such an old movie. it made it so much more enjoyable.

*beep* me gently with a chainsaw" Heathers

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] Helena727 10 years ago

he never loved her, at all!! he desperately wanted he fortune and once he thought he wouldnt get it he ran.

Not true -- because if he wanted only a fortune, he could EASILY have married some other woman. His cousin's marriage put him in the "right" social circle (that's how he met Catherine), and he was young + great-looking + charming -- he could easily have gone after some other rich girl.

I don't think that he *loved* Catherine as she loved him, but there's no question that he felt something specific for her because of who she actually was. Again -- if he'd been *only* a fortune-hunter, he could easily have charmed some other young woman into marriage. The story is far more complicated than that.

"All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of people."

[–] happybkwrm 9 years ago

But could he have 'easily' married another woman? With no money of his own; just his good looks and manner?

Could he have really found a woman as rich and adoring as Catherine?

I don't think so. Sure, he was 'in' with Arthur and Marian's crowd - but those women were probably too experienced to fall for his fortune hunting ways.

And really... what man turns down a certain $250,000 to $300,000 a YEAR (That's what Catherine's $10,000 a year was worth) for the possibility of something more? How vain, how stupid can a man be?

[–] denis-38 8 years ago

Happybkwrm--

This, exactly. She was already assured a fortune. Even if he didn't work--and he gave no indication he wanted to!--they likely could have lived comfortably on her trust. But he wanted a great fortune to squander. His greed was extraordinary.

[–] [email protected] (2019) 2 years ago

A person who has a different opinion to you and you call him names. Speaks more of you than him imo.

So many strong female characters in many old films, a pity you missed them all.

[–] 8 years ago

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[–] SandySmith 12 years ago

Maybe Emma Thompson wrote it best in her version of Sense and Sensibility:

Elinor: Poor Willoughby. He will always regret you.

Marianne: But does it follow that, had he chosen me, he would have been content? He would have had a wife he loved, but no money, and might soon have learned to rank the demands of his pocketbook far above the demands of his heart. If his present regrets are half as painful as mine, he will suffer enough.

[–] [email protected] (2019) 2 years ago

I think this too. Even if he had loved her, he may have come to resent her because money does matter to him as well as the 'finer things in life.'

[–] morganseer 11 years ago

Capital_letters, you may want to read up on Narcissistic Personality Disorder. There really are people who care nothing for others, but are masterfully convincing that they do, though only for their own selfish ends. These people often have dreams of idealized love, but are not capable of real love because they are incapable of going, or even seeing, beyond themselves. If they marry the object of their "desire," their charming behavior deteriorates over time to nasty rages whenever they don't get their way. But even then they only show that side of themselves at home, while maintaining their charm in public. If anyone leaves them, they panic and start to idealize and stalk that person, only to go back to their scornful, raging behaviors after getting them back.

I thought this film captured this type of personality beautifully.

[–] milo44 11 years ago

Spot on ... BIGTIME .

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I'd like a chance t' shoot at an educated man once in my life .

[–] quetee2 11 years ago

WOW!!!! This sounds familiar. Scary in a way...

[–] morganseer 11 years ago

Very scary, quetee2, sometimes deadly. Their rages sometimes go out of control, and people get hurt, occasionally killed.

[–] quetee2 11 years ago

The person whom I believe this describes to a T, I don't know this person but I have heard stories and it just sounds like that is what's going on with her. She is putting on a show and it is sad to watch someone you care for not realize it.

[–] morganseer 11 years ago

I had to watch it more up close and personal when my sister decided to divorce a narcissist. For a while there I was terrified he was going to wipe out my entire family. I got my hands on an ebook from Steve and Kim Cooper (they went through recovery together after he was diagnosed with a Narcissistic Personality Disorder), and their book had some excellent advice. I was able to guide my sister safely through the divorce process; she was too wigged out by his behavior to read it herself at that time.

If you're interested, I see it's now available for Kindle or Kindle app on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Back-From-The-Looking-Glass-ebook/dp/B00AEB5GGS.

But, this is important, the narcissist should not know that you two are reading the book until he gains some maturity. He would only use it to manipulate the process back to where he (thinks) he wants it. If your friend applies what she learns, divorce may not be necessary. If she still wants out, she'll be safer if she knows what she's doing.

Sorry this is so long, but we women have to look out for each other. Men too, if I got the genders mixed up.

[–] [email protected] (2019) 2 years ago

Do not analyze and judge someone based off some forum post. That is equally evil.

[–] deliaw1946 11 years ago

"Love" is a pretty strong word. I don't think he was capable of love. He was too selfish. I think he cared somewhat for her, but his true love was her money.

[–] bpollen 11 years ago

No, he didn't want to marry her for love, IMO. But that's not saying that it wouldn't have worked out. An arrangement. He gets money, and he probably liked her just fine. And she gets a husband and hopefully children, and she loved him. Could've worked out fine.

[–] first-things-first 11 years ago

If he had been honest, yes it might have worked.

If we can save humanity, we become the caretakers of the world

[–] liscarkat (18589) 4 years ago

It wouldn't have worked out fine. He would have relaxed once he had her fortune, and been a wastrel who stayed out late every night gambling, drinking, and whoring. She would be alone and miserable. Without him she may or may not be alone in the future, but she is in control.

[–] [email protected] (2019) 2 years ago

A lot of women marry for money too. I think it 'may' have worked out fine. She would've had a family of her own, children to love instead of loneliness. But the father has a point that he did not spend a cent on a sister who raised him like a son. That too speaks of his character. But then again, I have spent money and expensive gifts on my mother yet if you ask her, I didn't give her a dime. So we may never truly know.