One of the Four Great John Wayne Westerns - Red River (1948) Discussion

[–] Mississippi20 17 years ago

...and at least The Man who Shot Liberty Valance.

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[–] vinidici 16 years ago

Yeah, despite the fact he was playing men his own age in "The Cowboys" and "The Shootist", according to "Mister Know-It-All," Wayne was "too old and fat."

He actually wasn't quite as heavy in "The Shootist." And the story happens to be ABOUT an old gunfighter who had outlived his time. He wound up having to shoot it out with old enemies who were closer to his own age because--SPOILERS--he WAS "too old" to go any farther in that way of life, what with: his own age, and fewer "worthy opponents" as times progressed; his cancer: and the rapidly industrializing, newly-arrived 20th Century. The very "age thing" that you've obsessively made so many posts disparaging is THE WHOLE FRICKIN' POINT OF THE MOVIE, genius!

In "The Cowboys" he's playing a 63 year old cattleman. You gonna make a big deal out of the Duke's actual age, during filming, being 64 or 65?

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[–] jbbooks 16 years ago

I think EdwardCarter needs to get some.

Forgive me for the wrongs I have done, and for the ones I'm about to do.

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[–] joeparkson 16 years ago

I think "She Wore A Yellow Ribbon" was also one of Wayne's best westerns. His dignified, gallant performance without throwing a single punch was touching.

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[–] chipe 12 years ago

I enjoyed "Tall in the Saddle" -- loved the Ella Raines scenes with Wayne. One of my favorite movies. Good Wayne, humor, Gabby Hayes, story, even music. I wish Wayne made more movies like it.

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[–] joekiddlouischama 11 years ago

...and at least The Man who Shot Liberty Valance.

... agreed.

Actually, Liberty Valence or Red River would be the best in my opinion. The Searchers is searing, haunting, and vivid, but also flawed. Liberty Valence and Red River, on the other hand, are elegant, balanced, maturely ironic, and adept at unearthing the Western's quintessential questions and quandaries.

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[–] jrl0726 10 years ago

Agree Red River is not only his best but the finest ever. It is literally about COWBOYS and the story is real and significant.
Liberty Valance would be next. Hondo is probably the most under appreciated great western.

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[–] jamest155 9 years ago

I would also put El Dorado up there.

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[–] first-things-first 11 years ago

I have seen two, The Searchers and Stagecoach. I don't remember enough about Red River to rank properly, and I haven't seen Rio Bravo.

she loved poetry and romance, but she hit the glass ceiling at birth

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[–] CandianBacon 11 years ago

The Big Trail (1930) should have been his break-out movie, out of the B-flicks and into the A ratings, but it just didn't materialize. Although I have no problem with the ones you have chosen, I think The Big Trail ought to be considered as well.

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[–] lastyear11 10 years ago

The Searchers
The Cowboys
Red River
The Shootist

Man Who Shot Liberty Valance-always had a problem with jimmy Stewart being about 30 years too old for his role.
Rio Bravo-always had a problem with the non acting of Ricky Nelson. Also never thought Dean Martin looked right in a western with that greasy 50's haircut.

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[–] Phillip Marlowe 10 years ago

I'd have to add these to the four movies listed by the OP:

Ft. Apache
She Wore a Yellow Ribbon
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance

Each of these is superior to Rio Bravo and roughly equal to the other three. Not quite as good perhaps, but mention should be made of Hondo, True Grit, Three Godfathers.

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[–] hobnob53 10 years ago

I'd say:

Stagecoach
Red River
Rio Bravo
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance

There are of course lots of good Wayne westerns, many of which have been brought up. One not yet mentioned that's one of my favorites, though I wouldn't put it in his top four, is The Comancheros. Fun and exciting, with great chemistry between the leads and no pretensions.

I could never understand some people's affinity for The Searchers. A serious theme with great potential, fatally undermined in my view by an overabundance of John Ford's preference for heavy-handed, unfunny, boys-will-be-boys "humor", larded on incessantly by the director (mainly concerning Ward Bond, Ken Curtis and most of the dumbed-down horseplay they and others keep engaging in). It has a few great moments but there's just too much stupidity injected into the narrative, too much artificiality in the supporting performances and ancillary situations, to make it anything remotely "great". I don't even think it's that good, and it could have been had Ford kept the focus on Wayne and his central story and restrained his, shall we say, less artistic impulses.

This tendency also harmed some of Ford's other films (notably Mister Roberts, which Ford handled so badly he was forced off the picture and he and Henry Fonda never spoke again), but also including Ford's "cavalry trilogy" with Wayne (Fort Apache, She Wore a Yellow Ribbon, Rio Grande). These films are much better than The Searchers and Wayne gave excellent performances in them, but Ford's insistent silliness and incessant resort to idiot humor detracted from each. That said, I also think Wayne's 1949 Best Actor nomination should have been for She Wore a Yellow Ribbon, not Sands of Iwo Jima.

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[–] crood 9 years ago

I tend to think of Fort Apache as more of an ensemble piece than a "John Wayne Movie".

Due to it being based on a group of short stories, there's less feel of an overarching plot. Yorke feels like more of a supporting character than lead.

Similarly, I see Liberty Valence as more of a Jimmy Stewart movie where John Wayne is a supporting player.

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