MovieChat Forums > It's a Wonderful Life (1947) Discussion > So Much Respect for How Mary Hatch Was W...

So Much Respect for How Mary Hatch Was Written


Donna Reed is a rare beauty to begin with. Hard to imagine a guy like George would at first sabotage a chance with her. But man did they write Mary as a fantastic character. She was an eternal optimist. She had a great sense of humor. She was fearless when times got bleak and she was strong when things were desperate for her husband. She stood up for genuinely good but weaker people but she was also forgiving. I thought it very interesting that she never shared a scene with Potter which was surely intentional so that you could draw your own comparison of good and evil influences on George. In my opinion, Mary was the embodiment of great women and one of the main reasons people love this movie 75 years later

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She was a whore

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[deleted]

What?

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Yeah, she’s everything good about strong but kind Christian women, and everything that femininazism has tried to destroy.

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Agreed. Any man would be lucky to find a wife like her. It's unfortunate that this kind of example is virtually non-existent in films today.

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Don’t worry, Ms Marvel and She-Hulk are here. Lol.

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Which is exactly why we need a female president...

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A conservative Christian female president.

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I think I read that Donna Reed actually threw the rock and hit the window on her very first try (in the famous scene where she and Stewart are walking home after the dance). Jimmy Stewart's reaction is supposedly genuine there!

I agree about her beauty in this movie. George was a lucky guy for sure!

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That’s a great story.

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I think she's kind of a weak character myself, just someone who's written to be the Perfect Wife for the protagonist, and not a complete and believable person. This is amply demonstrated in the last act, when we see what would happen to her if George wasn't around, and she's portrayed as an empty shell because she doesn't have George around to give her purpose and a personality, which shows how incredibly lazy the writer was with her. The writer thinks that if she isn't a perfect wife she's nothing, and the fact is that most humans are capable of finding purpose and a personality, even if fate doesn't send them the gift of a perfect spouse.

If you like watching Perfect Wife characters, enjoy the movie over and over again! But remember, there can be a huge difference between a character you love, and a character who is well-written.

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I disagree that the writing was lazy or meant to suggest fate relegated Mary to a solitary existence without George. Mary was a character of action throughout the film. It was Mary who chose George as the love of her life from the earliest scenes when she was a little girl. She pursued him in Act 1-2 because she saw his great potential just like she saw the potential of the abandoned house and the struggling immigrant families and the honeymoon money. Unlike everyone else in the film, she repeatedly sees the hidden greatness in other people and other circumstances because she is great. Mary could have had any man she wanted but she only wanted George. Even before Clarence showed Mary’s alternative reality she had this exchange with George:

George: Mary Hatch, why in the world did you ever marry a guy like me?

Mary: To keep from being an old maid.

George: You could have married Sam Wainwright, or anybody else in town.

Mary: I didn’t want anybody else in town

In the world where George does not exist, she’s unmarried by choice rather than because she couldn’t. There is no other man in town worthy enough for her to want. Her alternative story is sad but it’s not submissive; it’s what she chose.

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Name a time when she ever spoke about something other than George and the kiddies, or appeared to care about anything other than George and the kiddies.

Because if she didn't, then my argument that the writers didn't bother to put anything in her head but love for the main character stands!

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We only see her for moments out of days here and there, scattered over a period of several years. We don't get to hear the great majority of what she speaks about. The movie is about George, so it makes sense that we only see her at times when George is involved, or when she's talking about George. That doesn't mean she doesn't talk or care about other things when we're not watching. But all the other stuff she talks about and does when we're not there is irrelevant to the story.

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Thank you. It's a fair point that we only see her with George, and therefore we don't get a glimpse of what she's like away from George.

But my point is not disproven, so I'm going to stand by my statement that the writers didn't bother to put anything in her head except thoughts about George.

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I think that's more what people thought about how women should be back when this was made. Not lazy writing.

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Actually, I think her character as written is BOTH an expression of the values of the times, and lazy writing.

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You're ignoring the fact that the film is very George-centered and that EVERYONE, male and female alike, was worse without George around.

Also, I think the film does say something about a person's natural purpose. Mary in particular, and we could say woman-kind in general, has a natural purpose to fulfill the role of a wife and mother. It could be argued that what we see in Mary without George around is the result of a person not fulfilling the purpose they've been called to, and therefore participating in a failed life rather than a fulfilled one.

This is not to say of course that every woman is called to be a wife and mother, no more than every man is called to be a husband and father, but certainly Mary is.

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"Mary in particular, and we could say woman-kind in general, has a natural purpose to fulfill the role of a wife and mother."

Honey, if you are looking for a woman who believes that, you are still going to be looking when they plant you six feet under.

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I already know women who believe that, and at least one of them is quite angry at the feminists of the 1960s for trying to divert women from their natural social roles.

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See below.

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Nonsense! You need to go into other parts of society to see other types of women. Some women have gone through great lengths to set themselves up as wife, mother, and manager of the home. I remember while in college decades ago women who were dedicated to their high school sweethearts and would not look at another man. That remaining in a small town, having kids, and forgoing a major career was perfectly acceptable. Almost forty years has gone by and most are still with their man of their youth. Perhaps they saw IAWL one too many times?

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Most women are like everyone else, they don't want to fit someone's idea of a predestined role, they just want to be happy and have a happy life. Now quite a lot of people, male, female, or other, believe that marriage and a family will make their lives happy, so they actively look for spouses and chances to reproduce.

Now the difference someone who believes that Fate and Nature intend humans to be spouses and parents, and a person who believes that marriage and family will make them happy is subtle, but it's VERY important. Because a person who believes that marriage and parenthood is a necessary destiny will put up with almost anything from their spouse, but a person who believes that marriage and parenthood is the path to personal fulfillment will divorce their spouse's ass if the spouse makes them unhappy!

I suspect that failure to understand this, is why so many heterosexuals are absolutely blindsided when their spouse leaves.

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?????????? In my opinion the number 1 reason for a spouse to leave "abruptly" is long standing behavior issues. Beating a wife for example. Everybody removes their mask after the honeymoon in terms of behavior patterns. Then it is a matter of playing "I can fix him (or her)" until somebody's head makes hard contact with the oak table or bed post. The offender is truly surprised at the exit for various reasons whether it be from being conditioned from what they saw growing up or having a god complex. The answer is always there in terms of why but may never be uttered out loud leaving everybody to make their poor guess at the break up.

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I'm old and have seen a lot of shit, and IMHO the two most common kind of blindside breakups are these:

1: One person is abusive or just horrible, and the abusive person thinks that everything is fine when their partner shuts up and stops trying to change the situation. The partner is, in of course, planning their escape.

2: One person refuses to listen to the other talks about their unhappiness in the relationship, and refuses to engage in any attempt at change. The person who refuses to listen or change will be absolutely blindsided when the other gets fed up and leaves, and BTW if you know a genuinely good person who has seemingly been dumped without notice this is probably how it happened. They were actually given plenty of notice, they just didn't listen to it.

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That is normally part of the problem. One partner does the Dr Jekyll-Mr Hyde with everybody outside of the home only seeing the good doctor. So a "genuinely good person" on the outside may not be that way if you could observe them for a sustained period in their home. Sometimes the best actors are not the ones you see on the screen but the ones you actually know. Some people have the ability to be on their best behavior in the presence of company or outside the home but are monsters around their families. Hard to imagine when your background was/is far less chaotic.

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Well, not exactly. Yes, some abusers do the Jeckyl-and-Hyde things, and not just abusive spouses but abusive parents.

But sometimes genuinely decent, harmless, non-abusive people are blindsided by someone leaving, and it's as I described above. They do no harm, but they don't listen to their significant other or take them for granted, and ignore the spouse when told the other partner is unhappy, and they refuse to create change. They are the ones who be completely astonished when their partner leaves, because they know damn well they didn't do anything abusive, and they had no idea that their partner was unhappy! Well, they were told their partner was unhappy but they didn't listen, and sometimes people leave when there is no abuse, just thoughtlessness, a lack of communication or intimacy, or they just feel ignored.

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Is being blindsided when your spouse leaves a heterosexual thing? Do homosexuals just take it in stride? Maybe that's one reason homosexual "marriage" is hard to take seriously.

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I'm old and have met a lot of people and seen a lot of shit, and in my experience you're more likely to see blindsided dumpees among the ruins of opposite-sex couples than same-sex couples. And that is because IMHO on average same-sex couples understand each other better than men and women do, which BTW would be a reason to take same-sex marriages *more* seriously, rather than less!

So yes, there are plenty of breakups among same-sex couples, but fewer of the breakups involve someone whining that they had no idea that their SO was unhappy .

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". . . will divorce their spouse's ass if the spouse makes them unhappy!"

Ah yes, the easy-come-easy-go approach to marriage these days. It's no longer about making a real commitment to something and someone, but something engaged in until one's fickle whim begins to blow in the other direction.

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Yes. It is. Everyone but you has realized that it's better to end a toxic relationship, or dump a toxic significant other, sooner rather than later.

Get used to it.

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What of the people who seek a divorce simply because they got bored?

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Why are you trying to imply that there's some sort of social obligation to stay in relationships that aren't working? Sick of being dumped or something?

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I'm implying that marriage is a special institution and more than just "a relationship." If you're not willing to really commit then don't get married.

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If you want your relationship, or marriage, to last, you have to make your spouse happy! You have to give them a reason to want to be there with you! They aren't going to put up with bad treatment or unhappiness because of some sense of obligation, or a vow that their partner isn't honoring either, if that partner is failing to love, honor, etc.

That isn't a difficult concept to grasp, for anyone with a shred of basic decency.

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She is adorable in that movie.

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I agree with you. She was good. I liked her.

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Good post.

I think that George was so dead set on getting out of Bedford Falls and seeing the world--so set on that purpose--that he wasn't going to let a woman stand in his way. The fulfillment of his life's dream of being an adventurer was far more important and interesting to him than the prospect of a good wife.

You're of course right though that Mary was an ideal wife. Despite what Otter is saying elsewhere in the thread, I have never viewed her as a simplistic character but rather as one who is fully human and three-dimensional even if she is a naturally devoted and focused wife and mother. As someone who is in his 40s and still waiting for that "right girl" to come along, I can testify to the rarity of a girl like Mary. She reminds me of Proverbs 31:10: "Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies" (KJV).

That's an interesting insight about never sharing a scene with Potter. I'll have to think on that.

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I have a lot of interesting exchanges with Otter. He’s cynical sometimes but willing to hear me out. I’ve often heard the Mary criticism he raises: i.e., that it’s a shallow implication that the worst fate to befall a woman is an unmarried life. But, he’s missing the point of that scene which was meant to demonstrate the impact of her alternative reality on George, not herself. As George finally realizes during the alternative reality, to have been chosen and loved by Mary was the greatest success of his life. He doesn’t ask Clarence for his life back until seeing Mary in that alternative reality. When he chases her down the street, he doesn’t say “What happened to you?” He says, “Don’t you know me? What’s happened to us?” Because without Mary knowing him and without the “us,” he sees that his entire existence is lost. He realizes she is the very meaning of his wonderful life.

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All true.

And we can't forget the period this movie was written and filmed. People today are so quick to condemn people from the past using today's "morality".

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