MovieChat Forums > Sahara (1943) Discussion > Why so sympathetic to the Italians?

Why so sympathetic to the Italians?

posted 14 years ago by jgroub
15 replies | jump to latest

This was made in 1943. Weren't we still at war with the Italians at that time? And even if we weren't, it still seemed waaaay too sympathetic a way to treat a barely former enemy. I don't get all the hatred for the Germans but the love of the Italians here. Yes, after the war, we learned that every single Germans soldier was Nazi scum, but we sure didn't know that in 1943. (And yes, I'm kidding with the "every single soldier" remark.)

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] ProudTraitor 12 years ago

"I suspect a lot of it had to do with the large Italian-American population who would buy tickets in the theaters. Of course, there was a large German American population too, but somebody had to be the black hats"

Also German Americans didn't have as strong ethnic identity as Italians, as they came earlier and were more assimilated, and were also less "distinct" from other Americans.

[–] pathfinder616 12 years ago

ProudTraitor is correct. i watched this on TCM last night and Ben Manchewitz stated that ticket sales was directly responsible for the sympathetic view towards the Italian POW.

"We deal in lead, friend."

[–] CathodeRayTubesRock 9 years ago

Also German Americans didn't have as strong ethnic identity as Italians, as they came earlier and were more assimilated, and were also less "distinct" from other Americans.

I wonder. My family spoke German at home until WWII. It became unpatriotic, or so I've been told.

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[–] rockcairn69 14 years ago

Did the Italians believe in their leader as fervently as the Germans did, maybe so, but maybe they didn't believe so much in the cause their leader sent them off to war for. To me, that might make the Italians seem a bit less menacing than the Germans, so they might have been hated a bit less, also.

But if they're pointing a gun at you, do you really see the ethnic group of that person, or just your potential killer that needs neutralizing, no matter who they are?

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] kueskues 12 years ago

The number of human being Stalin killed range from 4mil to 14mil.

"We will never know how many millions Stalin killed. 'And yet somehow Stalin gets a pass,' Ian Frazier wrote in a recent New Yorker article about the gulags. 'People know he was horrible, but he has not yet been declared horrible officially.'"

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2010/september/naimark-stalin-genocide-092310.htmllly.";

[–] TorontoJediMaster 12 years ago

The Italians were -at the time the movie was shot- still the enemy. However, by that time it was pretty well known that their heart was not in the war at all.

When Sicily was invaded in July of 1943, the first enemy troops the 1st Canadian Division encountered were Italians. They approached the Canadians carrying their personal gear with no purpose other than surrendering. They were fed up with the war and had decided that their best option was to immediately give themselves up so that they'd be alive to eventually return home.

[–] Altho73 9 years ago

Because there was a more sympathetic attitude towards the Italians in real life.

My mother was in her early teens in 1941/42 and lived near a prisoner of war camp. On weekends groups of Italian POW's were allowed to watch movies at the local cinema accompanied by only one guard. They were well behaved and made no attempt to escape and there was no animosity towards them by the cinema audiences.

The German POW's on the other hand were not given such privileges and on the rare occasions that they were paraded through the streets they were accompanied by a dozen guards and were subjected to torrents of abuse from the local population.

[–] kbarada 9 years ago

Because there was a more sympathetic attitude towards the Italians in real life.

I agree Altho and I think it has a lot to do with the food. Americans loved Italian cuisine at the time of the war and love it to this day. German food, not so much. The warmth and vibrancy of the Italian/Americans as expressed through their food was a subtle but powerful force!

[–] pmiano100 9 years ago

Most Italian soldiers fought so poorly and were so quick to surrender no one took them seriously as enemies. Also, many Italian-American servicemen still had relatives they knew about in Italy. For the most part, their grandparents or even their parents were Italian born. Most German-Americans had been American for generations and they were afraid to say anything about German stereotypes because they feared a revival of the persecutions of WWI.

My mother told me that during WWII, many Italian POWs were allowed out on "parole" to work at non-defense jobs that needed workers, or even as time off for good behavior, something Germans, Japanese, and even Vichy French never got. Almost all reported back to the camp on time. There was no place for them to escape to, and most were perfectly happy to enjoy the relatively good food and decent accommodations of American POW camps while their country was being ravaged by the conflict between the Germans and the Allies.

[–] pmiano100 9 years ago

1. Most Italian soldiers fought so poorly and surrendered so quickly, few people took them seriously as enemies.

2. The dissension between the Italians and the Germans in North Africa were well-documented. The Italians thought the Germans were brutal and the Germans thought the Italians were cowards.

3. German-Americans were more assimilated, having been here longer. Most had no strong ties to their ancestral homeland. Besides, they feared if they protested, there would be a renewal of the persecutions of WWI.

4. There were large numbers of Italian-American servicemen and defense workers, and no one wanted to offend them.

5. Italian POWs were treated even better in the USA. Unlike the POWs from Germany and Japan, some were even allowed conditional release to take non-defense jobs to relieve the labor shortage. Many stayed after the war.

[–] LesterFester 9 years ago

by Altho73 » Mon Dec 28 2015 IMDb member since October 2005...My mother was in her early teens in 1941/42 and lived near a prisoner of war camp. On weekends groups of Italian POW's were allowed to watch movies at the local cinema accompanied by only one guard.

I never lauhed so hard the first time I heard that. It sounded so Hogan Heroish My Uncle was stationed on Governor's Island and had a distant cousin who would get weekend leave to visit family. I was told he was in tears when the war was over and he had to go home.

My Uncle also said the one place you never wanted to be was between a guard tower and a German POW.

" Three can keep a secret... if two are dead "

[–] liscarkat (18541) 6 years ago

Italians were not regarded as the same level of threat as Germans. Italian prisoners of war interned at Camp Ono near San Bernardino, California, were allowed to come into town on leave on weekends. Many had American girlfriends, and stayed in the U.S. after the war.

[–] PeterBlues (790) 5 years ago

the dvd release i got of this is pretty rich, with many alternative audio (dubbing) for languages and so many subtitle options i struggled a bit to find my own one, some of the german's dialogue must pass english speakers right by like when he utters traitor, the plot description on the back gives away too much of the developing story. spoiler follows, when you thought they were leaving the guy in the desert was such a painful bit of watching and such a relief when they changed their minds and let him join them, the scenes are so effective because it's so close and basic, like the visual of the airplane firing is terrifying, today you would have a blast of special effects and kind of wouldn't grasp the intensity of the moment as well, also adding to this is the entire running time taking place in the desert with a small crew before facing the enemy. one funny line in this otherwise serious movie "don't suppose you came to crack jokes", and the italian's moral defence at first, followed by some real rich dialogue from the italian. this might be an obscure reference, but the "miracle" by the end was very similar to the end of the italian comedy "botte di natale" all english dubbed though.

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