I think the lighting of two cigarettes, and swelling Max Steiner music as he did so, added to Paul Henreid's romantic appeal. I hate to say it, but the cigarette lighting scenes contributed a lot to my starting to smoke (thankfully have stopped). But, yes, I couldn't see Charlotte continuing a real relationship with him. The whole thing was so idealised; "Jerry, let's not ask for the moon, we have the stars" - or whatever the exact quote was.
Claude Rains, on the other hand, needed no props. He just had to be there, and speak, and, maybe, twinkle his eyes.
Thinking about this, I'm going to have to get out my DVD and watch the movie for about the twentieth time.
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Jennie_Portrait
8 years ago
Or just watch this: https://youtu.be/dhY-8sthLPk
For films of this genre, it seems that cigarettes are a symbol of independence and (gasp) sex. In the beginning, when Charlotte is a repressed old maid, she hides cigarettes in her bedroom along with alcohol and naughty books she's not supposed to read.
Yes, I think any man-- even Gollum, would seem attractive if you had Max Steiner music swelling in the background.
Claude Rains is so witty and interesting; he's very much Charlotte's equal and would be a better match.
Here's the clip of Bette Davis saying Charlotte ended up with Claude Rains https://youtu.be/4wsgpF-InEY
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Never say never...
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!!!deleted!!! (2212087)
8 years ago
Ooh, I loved that, it made me feel like a soppy teenager again, but it made me want a cigarette. Thankfully there's no one here I can bum a smoke from. The ending has been described as one of the best final lines in a movie.
I first saw this on TV on an old local TV programme, called the "Golden Years of Hollywood." Later, I had the presenter of the show as one of my lecturers at university. I was in my mid teens and thought it was so romantic, until my older brother told me about the sexual connotations of the two cigarettes & smoking. My mum knew the words to a song that was popular at the time of the movie's release and was written to the the main theme and went something along the lines of 'Love, can it be wrong to stay, here in your arms this way' - all I can remember. This movie holds such strong memories for me as I have always loved it, and it probably opened up the world of classic movies for me.
Have you seen Claude Rains in any of series of the "Four Daughters" movies with Priscilla Lane? I don't know if they're ever shown any more. I remember thinking they were rather nice, but maybe I'd now find them saccharine. He was so appealing in them, even in the one he played a charming ne'er do well.
It's interesting to note that when Claude Rains was a child he apparently had a extremely strong Cockney accent. When i read that I wished I had done to the speech classes my mum wanted me to attend.
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Jennie_Portrait
8 years ago
I adore Bette Davis. Her walk is really unusual. She doesn't just take a step; she throws her whole body forward on one side and swings her leg forward. It's sort of the way someone learns to walk with leg braces. Herbert Marshall (who was an actual leg amputee) actually had a more natural gait to his walk).
I have never seen Four Daughters series. I have seen another movie --Mr. Skeffington-- where they starred together. They were amazing.
If you want to see another movie with really weird symbolism re sex, look at the ending of North by Northwest: https://youtu.be/DPt-4Nwght0. Going through a train tunnel indicates consummation.
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Never say never...
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!!!deleted!!! (2212087)
8 years ago
I love Mr Skeffington. I remember reading that Bette Davis, for her first entry into the movie, had to mentally psych herself into "being beautiful", because she was playing the belle of New York and was under no illusions about her physical looks. Here were all her beaus, waiting breathlessly for Fanny's entrance, and she managed to carry it off.
Have you seen "Deception"? it reunited Paul H, BD & CR. I only saw it once, years ago,and remember it as being rather overwrought, but not in a good way. Apparently they had trouble filming it as DB was visibly pregnant and so they had to use odd angles to hide this.
You mention BD's walk. Have you seen "Beyond the Forest" (immortalised in "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?") She flounces, shrugs and throws herself around as if she's trying to knock down the scenery, puffing like mad on her ciggie and wearing a truly awful wig and dreadful clothes. It's a scream. It's also very overwrought, but extremely entertaining.
Is your user name from "Portrait of Jennie"? I love Joseph Cotten - incidentally, he's also in "Beyond the Forest" - sadly miscast, in my opinion.
Love "North by Northwest". Anything with with Cary Grant (plus James Mason - another fabulous voice) is good. Did you like the fireworks in "To Catch a Thief" when he and Grace Kelly consummated their relationship?
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Jennie_Portrait
8 years ago
Yes, my username/avatar is from Portrait of Jennie. It's not that it's my favorite film, but the picture very much resembles me (people have asked me who painted it for me!). Also, the movie was filmed right by my home (it was one of the earlier movies to be filmed on location).
Joseph Cotten was such a natural actor- very much like Spencer Tracy, so very real and understated. He was terrific in Shadow of a Doubt.
I haven't seen Deception (https://youtu.be/c2ul7MvuqgU), but I will look at it sometime. What ever did we do before the internet? Haven't see Beyond the Forest either.
She was in so many films and was truly an original. No one sounds/acts like her.
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mcornett
8 years ago
There's a rumor that the studio heads basically dared Davis to make "Beyond the Forest" by pulling out the worst script they had and just waiting for her to violate her contract by walking out on it. She responded by chewing the scenery and making the most of the overheated melodrama and doing her best to make it clear she was miscast. Not sure how true that story is, but having seen it, sometimes I got the sense that Davis knew the script was garbage and made the most of it.
"Value your education. It's something nobody can ever take away from you." My mom.
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!!!deleted!!! (2212087)
8 years ago
I'm willing to believe that.
She certainly responded to their challenge. It's become an overblown classic. I remember reading that Bette Davis liked Joseph Cotten and thought that he, as the character, didn't deserve all the disdain that Rosa heaped on him. I thought Joseph Cotten was badly miscast - maybe he'd offended somebody in authority? He always seemed urbane and sophisticated, certainly not "modest Joseph Cotten" (Martha in "Who's afraid of VW"), in this case playing a small town doctor(?).
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PhoebeCole
8 years ago
Thank you all for the replies. I believe Jerry was a hopeless romantic that believed things had a way of working out while Charlotte was more practical. I would like to think that they eventually found happiness with each other even though the book and Bette Davis say otherwise.
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Danusha_Goska
8 years ago
Love this thread. thank you everyone.
Watching the movie for the umpteenth time.
Every time you watch a classic again after a long hiatus, you see new things.
What i'm seeing with this viewing is that the beginning of the movie very much preps us to see Charlotte and Jackwith together at the end, after the close credits.
Came here, saw this thread, and saw my thoughts confirmed.
http://www.amazon.com/Save-Send-Delete-Danusha-Goska/dp/1846949866
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Jennie_Portrait
8 years ago
There is a game: Bed (or something more vulgar), Marry, Kill. You select the fate of each character for Charlotte. These are the results:
Bed: Jerry
Marry: Jaquith
Kill: Mom (natch)
Charlotte would have become bored with Jerry and then she would have felt as guilty as she did about not loving her mother. The problem is that she never would have left Jerry and they would have been stuck in a loveless marriage. And Jerry would have left her because he wouldn't want to be a two-time loser. Different times...
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Never say never...
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mcornett
8 years ago
Yup, Jerry was sometimes too noble for his own good, as is hinted at in the novel, and toward the end Charlotte is actually offended by his attitude toward her. They reach an understanding but it's great that the book (and movie) still show her as holding on to her autonomy and being an independent single woman. That lack of a pat romantic ending is what makes it stand apart from the crowd of other "women's movies" of the period.
"Value your education. It's something nobody can ever take away from you." My mom.
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