MovieChat Forums > Desperate Journey (1942) Discussion > Robert Osborne & TCM get it wrong -- yet...

Robert Osborne & TCM get it wrong -- yet again


For those of us on these boards keeping track of such things, Robert Osborne made yet another major factual blunder during his description of this film when it ran on TCM earlier this evening, August 8, 2015.

Three times -- in his promo for the film when it was coming up, his introduction, and his closing comments after the picture -- Osborne said that Raymond Massey was the Commandant of a prison camp in this film. No, he wasn't -- not even remotely. He was a German major pursuing the escaped crew across Germany. He had nothing to do with POW camps and was involved with the downed fliers only for purposes of interrogating them.

This is the latest in an increasing number of factual errors in the scripts TCM's staff gives Osborne (and Ben Mankiewicz) to read off the teleprompter when introducing their films. On the evidence the staff isn't very knowledgeable about the channel's subject, classic movies, which is bad enough. But Bob Osborne is supposed to be the expert who's seen all these films. Why doesn't he review and edit the copy he's given? Or does he write it himself, and simply not know as much as is claimed? Either way, obviously no one is bothering to check the facts they put forward.

Whatever the case, this trend is becoming more and more pronounced. And speaking of pronouncing things, Osborne is becoming worse and worse in that department as well. Sadly, age may have an effect here, but none of this excuses the increasing factual errors cropping up in many TCM introductions.

reply

If it bothers you that much, and it obviously does, you should write to them. I've noticed a growing trend toward bad fact checking...especially among younger writers who rely too much on the internet for their information. As for Mister Osborne, I'm guessing he doesn't do as much of his own writing as he used to and relies more on staff writers. I cut him a lot of slack. He gets more right than wrong.

reply

It's true, professional incompetence does bother me. If this was a one-off incident you'd just grimace and let it go; everybody makes mistakes. But as I wrote it's becoming more and more frequent.

Writing TCM apparently does no good. Several people who've been in on similar discussions have said they've gone onto the TCM site and done just that and have been met with either silence, grudging acknowledgment that seems to change nothing, or attacks by posters there who won't tolerate any criticism of their flawless idol Mr. Osborne. Since the same errors keep cropping up in subsequent intros, obviously no one is paying attention to anyone who sends in corrections. So that too seems a waste of time.

I like Robert Osborne too and do cut him some slack. But the basic problem is one of frequency and number, not the sudden appearance of mistakes. I do allow for his age and health and the fact that he himself has always admitted to having problems pronouncing many names and foreign words. But that still doesn't excuse sloppy editing or not doing one's job. And none of this excuses Ben Mankiewicz, who doesn't suffer from the age and health issues Bob unfortunately does. Both men give every appearance of simply never bothering to check their copy and instead just reading whatever they're given, so in that sense they're not doing their jobs either.

I agree with your observations about the growing trend toward bad fact-checking and some of the reasons for it...one reason why perhaps TCM should make an effort to hire a couple of actual experts to check copy and adjust the scripts given their on-air hosts. It's really not good when a channel presenting itself as the home of classic movies increasingly gets more and more of its information wrong. The fact that they still get most things right isn't much comfort and certainly not an excuse for shoddy work at other times.

reply

[deleted]

hobnob53 says > It's really not good when a channel presenting itself as the home of classic movies increasingly gets more and more of its information wrong. The fact that they still get most things right isn't much comfort and certainly not an excuse for shoddy work at other times.
I understand what you're saying; I feel your frustration; and I respect the fact this issue seems to be important to you. However, I think you're missing an important point, one you bring up yourself. None of us are perfect. Even if though most of us strive for the best we seldom achieve flawlessness. Even if that were possible in all situations, we'd have to ask at what cost and is it worth it?

I love the fact a channel like TCM exists. I can watch, on a continuous basis, the movies I enjoy watching. I don't have to buy or rent them and I get a bit of background information every now and then. Beyond my cable subscription, which I would have anyway, all this costs me nothing.

In the cases you cited, I personally don't see how the 'errors'; misidentifying a role or mispronouncing a name or word, could have changed your enjoyment of the movie. It's a pet peeve, I get it, but don't make it more than it is. I suspect both Osbourne and Mankiewicz do more than just read an occasional script but if it is all they do, why would you expect them to know every minute detail of every movie shown on the channel?

The fact that you've pointed out the mistakes you've noticed is, in my opinion, one of the reason it's not worth whatever extra effort would be required to achieve one hundred percent accuracy. Other people can point out the mistakes and share the information rather easily to others.

You don't like the fact TCM does not update information that viewers provide but that makes very little sense. Viewers can also be wrong. If they were to simply change their information based on viewer feedback, without verifying it, their error rate would likely increase not decrease. That brings us full circle, if the word is getting out and the error was minor, what difference does it really make?

I'd prefer them to spend any extra resources locating, acquiring the rights to, and showing these movies. In some cases, there's a lot of behind the scenes work that's done to locate and restore damaged movies we may never see. When they do that the movie may not be perfect but they air them anyway. I'm happy they do and don't leave them in the vault because they were lacking footage.

I would suggest you try to think of the ICM commentaries as a bonus. That's how I think of them. I enjoy the commentary but I save them for after I've watched the movie. Usually what is said inspires me to do more research about the movie, cast, or subject matter. For those purposes, what they say works for me. By the way, sometimes the people involved in making the movie may get some of the details wrong; especially after the fact when time has passed. It's really not that big a deal.

If the end of a movie were cut off abruptly; if it started before the scheduled time; if there were periods without sound; and if these things happened often I may be with you all the way. All of the things I mentioned have happened but somehow I survived. I continue to watch and enjoy TCM because the things they do right far outweigh any occasional problems they may have. I especially appreciate the fact they do not edit movies for time or for political correctness like they do on some other channels. We can't learn from history or appreciate life as it was if we're not allowed to see things as they were then.

Keep up the good work TCM! And hobnob53, keep expressing your opinions and pointing out whatever factual errors you may notice. Just try not to get so bent out of shape about it. We all benefit from the channel and from people, like you, who attempt to clear up the record.


Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]

reply

Hello mdonin -- I'm not "bent out of shape" about such matters, and to be honest I kind of resent that characterization. Nor is this a "pet peeve". You too easily dismiss or misunderstand my point. You're quite right that any mistakes the hosts may make shouldn't affect our enjoyment of the movie itself. So I ask you: when did I say it should? It shouldn't, and it doesn't.

My complaint, here and elsewhere, is over, not simply the errors that TCM persists in transmitting in many of its introductions and wrap-ups, but the fact that no one, including the on-air hosts, shows any evidence of trying to correct or learn from their mistakes, let alone any realization that they're making mistakes in the first place. I'm asking why TCM continues to rely on apparently untrained or unknowledgeable staff who repeatedly fail at their jobs, why people like that are hired or kept on, and most of all, why the supposed experts in the field, Ben Mankiewicz and particularly Robert Osborne, don't catch and correct the obvious errors in their scripts.

I suspect both Osbourne and Mankiewicz do more than just read an occasional script but if it is all they do, why would you expect them to know every minute detail of every movie shown on the channel?


Actually, yes, I would; or let's put it this way, I expect them to read over the work handed them with care and a critical eye, to be versed in their alleged area of expertise, to question their staff, and to put their own supposed knowledge to use in what they say. There are only two possible explanations for their making so many mistakes: either they don't care about the quality of their work and just blow off any responsibility for the words put in their mouths; or they don't actually know what they're talking about and so wouldn't catch a mistake because they're ignorant of the subject matter. There is no third possibility.

Most of your reply concerns how great a channel TCM is because of the films it shows. Absolutely -- no argument. Also completely irrelevant to my point. If TCM doesn't bother to get better people, if its hosts are either lazy or incompetent, then this affects a critical portion of TCM's mission. It's not only a channel that shows movies; it's a channel that presents information on some of them (the ones that are hosted) and is dedicated to making classic films and their stories better known -- as a way of getting people to appreciate what they see, not just watch them and leave it at that. Repeatedly making mistakes -- many of them very basic and easily avoided with just a modicum of care -- and failing to correct ones made previously is not a sign of a channel that's living up to its core mission: not just showing films, but informing its viewers.

I'd prefer them to spend any extra resources locating, acquiring the rights to, and showing these movies.


What makes you think hiring competent researchers would somehow take resources away from locating and acquiring the rights to movies? (Showing them costs nothing.) Pardon me, but that is ridiculous. All it is is a matter of firing bad ones and hiring good ones. The cost of that is a net neutral. It doesn't involve diverting money, time or any other resource from the task of acquiring movies. I think you're grasping at straws resorting to that argument.

I'll also offer that when this channel becomes preoccupied with its cruises and now a wine club, neither of which advances its core function in the slightest, your concern about diverting resources is seriously misplaced.

You don't like the fact TCM does not update information that viewers provide but that makes very little sense. Viewers can also be wrong. If they were to simply change their information based on viewer feedback, without verifying it, their error rate would likely increase not decrease. That brings us full circle, if the word is getting out and the error was minor, what difference does it really make?


Actually, I said nothing advocating that viewers provide information. That was in response to the first person to reply to this thread, who brought up the fact that I could go complain at TCM's website; I merely pointed out that based on information provided by others, that was a waste of time precisely because TCM utterly disregards any corrections or information people send in. Once again, you completely miss my point: I agree, it's not up to viewers to make corrections; it's up to the staff, either to not make the mistakes in the first place, or to correct them once they've been pointed out. Your claim that I'm somehow advocating that the TCM staff not verify any information is absurd beyond belief; again, where did I say any such stupid a thing? The whole point is that the staff should verify their information. Viewer input should in fact be a -- not the -- primary resource for them: not to simply accept whatever they're told, but to check to see if what viewers are telling them is accurate.

But the problem is they don't rectify mistakes; they don't do any follow-up or fact-checking on what they've written; they don't listen to others. They simply stick with whatever they've said before and never even admit the possibility of error. They need to realize that research is not an act, but a process; it doesn't stop just because you've written an intro, and it doesn't mean that you simply ignore areas you've already looked at, as though there was nothing wrong or no more to be learned. These people are paid to do a job, and they're not doing it.

Finally, please explain why doing proper research and getting it right is so onerous or difficult. If so many viewers can spot errors (large or small), then why can't their paid staff, or more importantly, the two men hailed as experts on the subject, do the same? You should also be aware that this is more than just a matter of making a misstatement about a particular movie; there have been occasions when they don't even get the title of the film they're showing right. Frequently they give no evidence of having even watched the film they're showing, and when it comes to guest programmers (such as the co-host of "The Essentials", right now Sally Field) the amount of ignorance on display is sometimes astonishing.

In sum, it may be you who are getting "bent out of shape" by my criticisms of TCM. You seem intent on dismissing the importance of doing their job well or of keeping faith with their viewers. As long as they show movies, that's all that matters. If all they did was show movies, I would agree with you. But it's not. TCM boasts that its hosts are experts and that their mission is to bring not just the films themselves but an awareness and a knowledge of classic films to its audience. When so much continues to go so wrong, when the evidence is overwhelming and growing that they are not only failing to do this but that they just don't give a damn, in fact react with hostility to any criticism or correction, when they don't even try to make corrections or acknowledge mistakes, then something is clearly amiss. They could easily fix all of this, at no additional cost and without taking away resources from other aspects of their operations. They just don't. And that's the responsibility of the people who work for them and the people who run the channel. They just don't give a damn.

And I say all this with sadness, because it's my favorite channel too. But I can't overlook, not so much mistakes (as you say, anyone can make a mistake), but more crucially the shoddy and careless work coupled with an arrogant and dismissive attitude that allows far too many mistakes to happen and then refuses to correct them afterward or resolve to do a better job.

reply

Do you guys get paid by the word?

reply