Does anyone know why York wets the sight of his rifle before firing? Is that some standard trick used by snipers? (Remark: in Hawks's "Ball of Fire" a gangster does the same thing, saying "I've seen that in a movie"; a self-citation by the master Howard Hawks). Thanks for any information. Paolo
shareyou know, its funny, i found out why by watching the movie land of the dead. The main charactors friend is a crazy awesome sniper and in one scene he licks his finger and rubs it on the tip of the rifle, when one of his partners asks him about it, he says it catches the light.
i got pretty interested in that and it turns out it basicly just makes a reflection on the tip of the rifle that helps accuracy (you can apparently see your target in the reflection of the rifle, just a spec of em, but still)
pretty crazy huh? lets hear it for awesome snipers
Dear friend, thanks for the very interesting information.
So one sees the target partially reflected on the sight; really weird... but it seems the trick works...
Thanks again. Paolo
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Movies are a poor place to learn about firearms. They always do exactly what the directors/scriptwriters ask them to do.
I do not know if Alvin York actually wetted his sites or if this was an invention of the film makers, but the next time you go to the rifle range, try it and see what happens. It might make you feel lucky, but it will not improve your aim.
Alvin York/Gary Cooper explains that he wets his front site to cut down the haze. If the haze is thick enough to wipe from your rifle's front site it is also heavy enough to prevent you from seeing your target (and it will probably cause you severe breathing difficulties).
I have also heard the story that this allows you to see a reflection of the target off the front site. Most firearms are finished with substances that reduce reflection, but even with the glossiest finish you will not see your target's reflection on the front site unless you are pointing the rifle at yourself. I do not recommend this position. There is a definite safety hazard involved.
The short answer is that there is no measurable advantage to wetting your front site.
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Sorry, but you are totally and utterly wrong. When I was in the Military in 1982 My Vietnam trained Sgt taught me that trick and he learned it from his Fathers and brother that were in WW 2 and Korea. They in turn learned it from the grandfather that was in WW1, who learned it from his father who was with teddy and the rough riders, and he in turn learned it from his father who was in the US Civil War.
using this trick I can sit open sighted and take the top off a 2 ltr bottle at 80 yards and not move the bottle. And yes I have witnesses that has seen me do it, one of them being the county sheriff and the other being the State patrol commanding officer of my area.
Just because you dont believe it does not mean that it is not fact. Heck even the NRA tells you to do this if you are having trouble with your sights. And I would hazard to guess that all of these people seem to know a site more about firearms then you or I do.
I have never seen anybody outside of the movies do this, but in some ways it makes sense. Using "non-optical" sights (ie the leaf front sight with the "O" or "V" rear sight) the shooter should have their eye focus more on the tip of the front sight than on the target, in order to have the tip as "small" (ie unblurred) as possible, to get the most accurate aim. Rubbing the top of the front sight with a wetted finger may be useful in (a) removing any grains of dirt on the tip of the sight which might otherwise make the sight inaccurate, or (b) if you wet the TOP of the tip, and it DOES give a reflection, then you have a more obvious marker of where the tip is (NOT the target), and hence you can more accurately aim the weapon.
NOTE: I've read of this in books, sometimes referring to "the old Kentucky rifleman trick", which leads me to think it's been around a mighty long time, since the days of black powder weapons, which could very easily leave a smoke deposit or powder grains on the front leaf, which, if left to build up, could make the sight inaccurate. Hence the technique may have been around for generations, and with the invention of "smokeless" powder (cordite etc) there was no longer a need for it, but it was carried on for reasons which were forgotten.
I was in the (Australian) Army for 16 years and fired weapons often, and as I say, I never saw anybody do it. Maybe an "urban myth" based upon a grain (literally) of truth.
Wetting of the sight does tend to cut the glare to enhance the reflection of the sight. It performs the same purpose of a candle black or sight black. It was used mostly with black poweder to give a finer bead and cut the reflecton or glare. By the way, I am a certified firerms instructor. This procedure is still used today in schuetzenverin (shooting club) matches of Germanic shooting matches with open sights.
shareI would agree with his reason to splotch the sight before his aim. As York was often defined for his capable sight with targets. Not to be cofused with a sniper but rather a marksman. And just the simple fact he choose the rifle as his survival gun. He used his skill very decisively.
sharethis would be an excellent oppurtunity to go to a local range and find out first hand.
shareI was in the military and had to take the same training as Alvin York. I never heard of anyone "wetting" the end of his sights to help his aim. I think this was a bit of fabrication on the part of the Hollywood writers. The military and law enforcement training that I am familiar with would not allow such unorthodox methods because it would be considered a waste of time and unnecessary movement. Any extraneous physical movement just prior to firing would hurt, not help your aim. Thats why the approved procedure for controlled firing on a range is to take a deep breath and let it go. It relaxes the muscles just before you squeze of a round. Of course if somebody could hit a perfect bullseye everytime, I could see them allowing such nonsense. But personally, I think its a bit of bull.
shareThe great part in that scene in Ball of Fire is that the guy is pointing his gun at Gary Cooper.
Well, let's say, for the sake of argument, cocky-doody.
If you're a gun fancier, this whole movie is a love song to the Springfield '03.
shareTo Ames0826-I am not a gun fancier, but do believe the main rifle used during the period of this movie was a Springfield 06, which used a .30 caliber bullet that is still one of the most popular in use today for Deer Hunting and other semi-large game.
shareWell, the rifle is called a Springfield '03 ("aught-three") because it was first manufactured by the Springfield Armory in 1903 as a response to the high-quality Mauser rifles the Spanish used in the 1898 war. The ammunition it uses is called 30-06 ("thirty-aught-six") because it's a thirty-caliber round first issued in 1906.
Ironically enough, I recently read that York was actually using a British Enfield rifle on that particular day.
Yeah, I looked it up too, it's actually the "American Enfield". Apparently Britain has contracted some "Pattern 1917 Enfields" to be built by Remington, Winchester and some other factories, but when the war started, they stuck to the SMLE (Short Mag Lee-Enfield) to avoid having problems with mismatched ammo, etc. When the US started the war, the had 1903 Springfields, they bouight the British interest int he factories and simply retooled the 1927 machines to fire the 30-06 round. So there were many Springfield '03's and so called "American Enfields" used by American troops in WWI. Alvin York was issued the American Enfield. .. I just read this elsewhere, I'm no expert, but I googled it.
As to why he wet the sight...well, some people have already mentioend that MAYBE it helped, maybe it's all BS...but most likely he did it because it's what he always did when he was hunting with his own Kentucky rifle back in Tenesee. Force of habit? I mean, if it worked for him with his Kentucky long rifle, and he'd been shooting all his life with great success, then why would he change his ways even when using a more modern rifle?
I liked the fact that he shot his Kentucky rifle in the turkey shoot scene and he had his brother cut and pack wadding for his rifle.
One thing I liked about this movie was the portrayal of life and values in Tenessee back then, and the contrast with "Pushers" view of the world (in New York).
In the Marine Corps in 1965 we sooted up our front sights of the M-14 with lampblack to reduce glare and give the shooter a solid black reference for the target (Parris Island recruit training). I have no idea what a wet front sight would do for anybody but as an old rifleman with 4-years service who was good at his job I never did it or knew anybody that did.
sharefour years in the infantry,and i never saw or heard of it. i think the black powder residue was where it started.
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