I've said it before. I am doubting that Crash will be remembered in Cinema glory like some of the other nominees for best picture this year. How Green Was My Valley is the original "Crash", as it beat Citizen Kane for best picture! HGWMV is not even on the American Film Institute's Top 100 films of all time.
shareAnd Brokeback Mountain is no Citizen Kane and will not be remembered in Cinema glory nor will it be hailed greatest movie ever. BBM is not even in AFI's top 100 films of all time nor will it be added to the National Film Registry in 2015.
BBM isn't even in IMDB's top 250...
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Whoever said Brokeback Mountain isn't in AFI's top 100 films is an idiot. The list was created in 1998, BBM came out in 2005.
Wow, you're thick.
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He wasn't saying, "anyone who thinks Brokeback Mountain wasn't in AFI's top 100 films is an idiot". He was just using that as identification, i.e.: Which person is an idiot? The one who said, "Brokeback Mountain isn't even in AFI's top 100 films".
sharethe reaction in here is kinda funny, considering the original poster never mentioned Brokeback Mountain. personally i think Good Night and Good Luck and Munich will outlive Crash by a longshot. so yeah, i'd say the comparison is apt.
sharenor will it ever be...
my point is that Citizen Kane is in AFI's top 100 and BBM isnt (and never will be and will not be remembered unless they do a 100 greatest homosexual cowboys movies list) even if they revise the list which chances are they wont because there have been few films to come remotely close to Yankee Doodle Dandy (#100)
AFI 100 best is a joke. There are well over a 100 movies that are really, really great and deserve to be on the list. The one's that are there, just happen to be. I mean look at the book "1001 Movies you Should see Before you Die." I am sure that you will read it and notice some unforgivable omissions and some peculiar choices. Why? Well because cinema is an art with hundreds of masters, who made thousands of excellent films. Who cares what film is better some year? Actually, who even cares when a movie is made? If it's good, then it is good. That is all I got to say. Oh wait, and who seriously cares about academy awards? They are about as important to the art of film making as accordions are on hunting trips.
shareOh, and Yankee Doodle Dandy is better than How Green Was My Valley?
Not even close.
Badges? We don't need no stinking badges!
Comparing Citizen Kane to brokeback mountain? You can't be serious...
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HGWMV is a gr8 movie though, really good.
And if everyone who watched brokeback mountain was burned....well, use your imagination.
Citizen Kane lost the Oscar because William Randolp Hearst didn't like it. Brokeback Mountain lost because Crash was a better movie. And seeing as how the second, third, etc films for the awards aren't released, how does anyone even know that it came in second or how close the voting was?
shareYou know, How Green Was My Valley deserved the Oscar. How was anybody supposed to know how much more influential Kane would become? Ford's film is a perfect Oscar winner, and a great one at that.
Badges? We don't need no stinking badges!
And you're probably too proud of yourself to notice anther list came out in 2007, two years after Brokeback Moutain, huh?
"Well, I think if people loved eachother more, they'd shoot eachother less!"
How Green Was My Valley has never been forgiven by a lot of people for beating out Citizen Kane to the actual critical detriment of HGWMV. I have always maintained the despite the technical excellance of Kane, HGWMV is the superior film. MOvies have to be about emotions as well as snazzy camera angles and deep focus....If welles was robbed it was for direction, not for best film.
shareMy my my...
there sure is a lot of revisionism at work here, people tend to forget (or are just plain unaware of) that HGWMV was an immensely popular and critically acclaimed film when it was released. John Ford had the Midas touch during the thirties and forties, everything his name was attached to became instant award fodder. A lot of film historians speculate (and I tend to agree with them here) that HGWMV was also somewhat of a "consolation" for Zanuck/Ford's The Grapes of Wrath losing to Rebecca the year before, in an outcome that was far more controversial than the one in 1941.
Yeah, The Grapes of Wrath losing to Rebecca was a terrible, terrible steal, but reducing HGWMV to only being a consolation winner is ridiculous. Yes, Kane is a far more influential and popular film, but it didn't lose to a ridiculously inferior film. HGWMV is a masterpiece (which is less than can be said for other Best Picture winners like Crash, Dances With Wolves and The English Patient).
shareOh nononono I wasn't suggesting that "Academy politics" reduced HGWMV to inferior film status. ( I actually consider awards somewhat arbitrary). Actually neither film was considered "the favorite", that would have been Sergeant York.
shareI see what you mean (similar to The Departed winning Best Picture). But wow, 1941 was a good year. HGWMV, Citizen Kane, The Maltese Falcon, Suspicion, Here Comes Mr. Jordan and Sergeant York are all timeless classics.
shareBeautifully said hachmom.
shareFair enough but what about all the technical Oscars, even the jury members in 1941 could see the technical perfection of Citizen Kane, and they despite that they gave the Oscars for Cinematography and Art Direction, to how Green was my valley. Everybody can see that Light, camera use, and the design of the set was much better in Kane. Things like the use of symbolism the giant fireplace in Kanes castle etc. And of course the editing style (i know How green didn`t won the editing Oscar) should given the film Oscar for editing.
The technical Oscars going to How green was my valley was scandalous, and probably because the academy didn`t dear to give, the any Oscars except Screenplay to Weles film after all the bad media atention, and their fear for Hearst to destroy their careers.
Well I couldn't care less what AFI puts out as top 100. Their list is basically just a bunch of people who cast ballots, and I don't know them from Adam so how can I take them seriously? Some films, like Raging Bull have jumped 16 spots within 10 years, and I don't think that film has gained any influence or popularity in that time. And the problem I have with the Oscars is you only need about 21% of the votes to win an award. Say the rest of the noms score around 19-20% each, then the winner goes to a movie/person that roughly 79% of the academy doesn't think should win. Is that really "the best?" Hardly. Maybe that's extreme and rare but I'm sure nominations have won with around 30%, which leaves 60-70% of voters thinking the award should have gone to something or someone else. Oscars are hardly a general consensus many take them for. I'd love to see how much a movie actually wins by.
As far as BBM is concerned, that was by far the weaker nomination, fueled by politics and media attention. I didn't see all the nominations that year but Crash was definately better between those two. I think a better comparison might be Forrest Gump beating out Shawshank Redemption or Pulp Fiction. My personal favorite is Gump but the other two have seemed to gain more popularity through the years, as has Kane.
"As far as BBM is concerned, that was by far the weaker nomination, fueled by politics and media attention."
I gotta love how people always fall back on that 'politics' thing for Brokeback. "If it wasn't about gay people, no one would have liked it." It's as if they are completely incapable of realizing that Crash is a movie about RACISM! How can you say Brokeback is only getting love because of it's politics, and then ignore the political side to Crash? There are a lot more people in this world that would support an Anti-Racist message than there are that would support a Pro-Gay message.
I didn't say that "if it wasn't about gay people, no one would have liked it" nor did I limit its fueling to politics alone. However, the liberal message in BBM was much more of a hot topic for the hollywood liberals at the time and as well as the liberal media than general racism. I also wouldn't say that Crash is about anti-racism, rather than just an exploration into conflicting racial emotions that are in all of us. I wasn't referring to the moral inside of either movie, but the hype associate with each. My theory, BBM had struck a much more political chord with voters than Crash, and that chord is one that quite a few Hollywood-ites have been pushing lately. In any event, it lost and it's not like BBM is going to be regarded as highly as Citizen Kane and everyone in the future will wonder how it lost. It wasn't even very well crafted.
shareWhat! Citizen Kane not about emotion? I defy you to find a film with a more emotionally complex character than Charles Foster Kane. People still debate the true meaning of Rosebud to this day, while "that other film" has become the answer to a trivia question.
shareI just read something interesting that might appease the OP. AFI CEO, Jean Pickler Firstenberg said that their list was not to close discussion but to open and encourage it. Here's a quote, "Movies are an intensely personal experience, and it's certain that this list will generate a broad range of opinion and discussion. AFI welcomes this dialogue..."
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Some people tend to forget that movies are also about good story-telling. Like you said, Citzen Kane seems to be noted more for it's technical innovations than anything.
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I absolutely agree on the 'HGWMV' - 'Trash' comparisons. Now, I don't hate Green Valley like I do Trash (one of the worst movies ever) but it is iritatingly sentimental, and what is more important, it's a HUGE BOREFEST.
Run like Mexican water through a first-time tourist.
I probably the only one, but I watch both movie, now I don't hate Citizen Kane but it wasn't my favorite. But, I like How Green Was my valley better, it wasn't boring to me at all.
Maureen O'Hara, Ireland Best Actress.
This is another case when 2 great movies competed for the Academy Award. One of them had to lose and that year How Green Was My Valley took the award home.
Citizen Kane it's a more cerebral and groundbreaking film but HGWMV is not a mediocre work. au contraire is one of the finest films directed by John Ford, IMO only behind The Grapes of Wrath.
Peter Bogdanovich says in an interview included in the DVD, that Citizen Kane came from the head while HGWMV came from the heart. I am agree with him.
The Oscar is a rather poor indicator for cinema quality. Some of the greatest directors of all time did never get one - Hitchcock, Welles, Chaplin, Kubrick, Lang, Eisenstein, Dreyer, Preminger, Peckinpah... just to name a few - while it went to other directors, who may be appreciable, but are clearly not in the same league - Robert Benton, Robert Redford, George Roy Hill, Ron Howard, Barry Levinson...-.
Having said this, I consider however that both CK and HGWMV are great movies and borh deserved an Oscar. CK was probably superior in visual audacity and inventiveness, but HGWMV has more feeling and emotion and wasn´t an unjust winner. Anyway I believe that HGWMV is far superior to 90% of the movies that have gotten the Best Picture Award.
You've proven a belief that I have been preaching for several years now:
Anyone under eight years old, or who is retarded should NOT be allowed to post on IMBD.
Thanks.