MovieChat Forums > How Green Was My Valley (1942) Discussion > The ending and Angharad's lesson? *Spoil...

The ending and Angharad's lesson? *Spoilers*


I just finished watching HGWMV and found the ending somewhat disturbing. I apparently became attached to the wrong story thread throughout the viewing and expected the moral lesson (besides the love of family) to be a criticism of Angharad's foolishness. But the movie fails to chastise her.

*spoilers*
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the painful ending set up by Angharad's bad decision? She and the preacher make the wrong choice, rejecting honest affection so that she can gain some status. She marries the son of a dishonest and cruel mine owner, feels such alienated affection that she cannot bare to remain in Africa with him, then suffers the gossip and backstabbing of household staff both because she is 'common' and because her affection is clearly turned away from her husband. She lives separately from the man she married, does not have children, and in no way interacts with the family she once loved and served due to the starchy 'station' she has married into.

The fallout of this marriage is the family's bad reputation in the town, increased hardship for Huw in the mines (taunting, fights) and her father's death(!). Her father fails to go to church in order to avoid the hypocritical and pompous speech of the deacons. He is thus in the mines when they collapse and dies.

The entire tragedy would have been averted had she married the man she loved.

I was shocked the story failed to acknowledge/resolve this issue. Am I missing something?

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I should add a couple more points:

The scene in the church where the congregation condemns a frightened woman who had a child out of wedlock, I thought, implied two things. Firstly, Angharad argues for forgiveness, understanding, and love in this scene when she storms out of the church (and I thought the film was on her side with these issues thus implying she should marry the man she loves). I also thought the film implied the miner's son, her future husband, was the actual father of this 'condemned woman's' child. Thus it was more inappropriate for Angharad to go through with a marriage she knew was wrong.

Did anyone also feel this way?

I recently finished reading Shakespeare's Measure for Measure. I may be plumming for an undue parallel between the material, and as I did not read HGWMV perhaps I am overlooking something important. But, if no one can explain this to me, I will be forced to think of the family's tragedy as nothing more than self-induced foolishness. Which seriously lowers my respect for an otherwise impressive film.

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Skindili,

I would offer this response. The choice Angharad made was a choice which would not have seemed so foolish to a woman in her circumstance in a day and place so infused by the traditions and hardships of the 19th century coal mining regions of Wales...or many other places in the 19th century.

I think the moral message you were looking for was there, but very subtle...as was common in films of the day in which this film was made. Remember, the notion of unions, for the betterment of the workers, was considered a "socialist" notion even as late as 1941. The film makers were treading risky ground with this story.

When Angharad puts her hand on Gruffydd's knee as he is about to descend into the mine to look for her father, the expressions on both their faces is the moral answer you were seeking.

You might find more pleasure in another great film with a similar story: "The Valley of Decision" from 1945 starring Gregory Peck as the industrial scion, and Greer Garson as the daughter of a blue collar worker who marries him. And you may enjoy, as I did, that Donald Crisp is again the father of the girl who "marries up".

Love these old B&W films!

Ciao, e buon auguri

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The choice Angharad made was a choice which...

I do not believe that her marriage to the miner's owner's son was NOT HERS. It was Gruffydd's. She was, to me, clearly prepared to marry him. It was HIS fear that stopped him. She was not the least bit concerned with his perception of poverty.

The women in this film are portrayed as especially powerful, and this is one example of that, as was Angharad's defense of the woman in the church.

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Aciolino,

"I do not believe that her marriage to the miner's owner's son was NOT HERS."

Did you mean to refer to her choice?...or her marriage? Your meaning is not clear.

Pardon me, I'm just the grammar police.


Ciao, e buon auguri

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Sorry I took so long to respond. . . had to find a parking spot and that's no easy task here in NYC.

Yes, I did mean that it was less HER choice than Gryffud's. As the poster following me nicely elucidates.

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Thanks for this thread. I saw the film once years ago and this storyline ruined it for me. I'm trying to rewatch it now and I don't think I'll get through it. It is more heavy handed and less artistic than I remember. I don't think I can sit through this storyline again, no matter the merits of the film.

http://www.amazon.com/Save-Send-Delete-Danusha-Goska/dp/1846949866

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I'll back this claim up! She would have married the minister, but he wouldn't marry her. He believed that she wouldn't be happy living in poverty with him (though that's all she's known her whole life so wtf?) and he refused to give into love and marry her. He pushed her to marry the mine owner's son. Her parents, who can not be faulted with wanting their only daughter to make an advantageous match, encouraged her to marry the mine owner's son as well. She could have refused to marry anyone, but even she could see how there may be advantages for her family if she did marry the mine owner's son. Her true love wouldn't marry her, so she married another who just may make life easier for her family. It unfortunately didn't work out that way. Her father ended up being used by the owner to stop a union from forming and her brother and father both die in the mines.

I also got the strong impression that it was the mine owner's family that kept her from seeing her family. Didn't want her associating with those "lowly" people.

But, I will say that if the minister had stopped being a self-righteous dick and just married the girl and trusted in god to see them through, then at least some lives would have been happier.

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Having just seen HGWMV, I'd venture that Ang's story line and relationships were not about love and human interaction, but her purpose in the story was to symbolize the ideological marriage to the concepts of capitalism and what gets left in its wake. Gryph would symbolize the balance between the "theologies" of capitalism and socialism. But that's just my first take of it.

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Also they only filled about half the book and so it lost the fact that several of these motiffs (unwed motherhood, unrequited love, poisonous effects of gossip)repeat themselves over and over into Hew's adulthood....

It is not our abilities that make us who we are...it is our choices

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[deleted]

Clearly this film was attempting to explore manifestations of political economy through what amounted to metaphors of family life, personal decisions and relations in the context of the economy in question. I am not saying what follows here as necessarily my preferred view of the film so much as what i think Ford and the rest involved were trying to say.

Arguably Gryffud's choice SHOULD be seen as mistaken, because in effect he fooled himself into seeing his religious vocation and choice as fitting with a perception that his proletarian beloved would prefer and be better off with the owners of capital than him. The two go together in his decision. In effect we see that his perception of what she would prefer was wrong, so why did he mistake her for someone other than she was? I don't see how any viewer of this film would think that Angharrad actually wanted to marry the mine owner's son over Gryffud, if at all. Why did Gryffud? Perhaps he was misleading himself, to some extent intentionally?

The irony is that the course Gryffud chose benefitted no one. WHat are we to make of this lesson?

Before answering, it is also tru as others have noted that not only the mine owner encouraged the match, but so did Angharrad's father, and implicitly her mother. On the surface this is seen superficially as wanting her to have a better life, but even as the story unfolds, we know she will not have a better life following that course. So what was really going on here?

I think the Morgans subconsciously were offering Angharrad to the owners to bind themselves to the owners. Perhaps not all that subconsciously. This fits with Morgan's later actions to undermine the unionization efforts. He identifies with the owners, and this has been reinforced by his daughter marrying into the family.

But back to Gryffud. The religious aspect to his decision is obvious, or more accurately the vocational aspect of it. He says his work in the parish in effect requires he foreswear marriage to Angharrad. Note the conflict here between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, and how Gryffud in effect follows a Catholic approach. But is there in fact any merit to his decision? I think not. Gryffud implicitly realizes this by tying his decision to a forthright self sacrifice - he will give over his beloved to the mine owner's son in order he tells himself to allow him to benefit his parish. He even goes so far as to assure himself that his beloved will be better off.

In short I think the film shows Gryffud to be a good but flawed man and leader. But the source of his flaw here is in his wrongheaded perception of the connection between his religious/vocational role and that of the actual economic, and political, situation in the Valley. He indirectly was too accommodating to the notion that was shared by the Morgans, regarding the potential benefits of being tied to the owners. He was patronizing to Angharrad herself, allowing his lack of resolve and courage to substitute his flawed perception of what was best for her for her own decision and wishes.

It is really a parable about how good intentions and a sense of duty can lead one astray if not informed by an accurate assessment of one's place in the political economy of one's environment.

Now I am aware some see this film as a very different one, a call to accept duty in the face of the rise of Fascism and the outbreak of WWII. But of course warning viewers to follow a "real" leader down the right path does not diverge from what Ford probably perceived as the issues of the day.

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[deleted]

March,

To be clear I did not think Gryffud felt that Angharrad should marry into the owner's family to benefit them, but to benefit herself compared to the poverty she would find married to him.

As far as any vow made by him along those lines, such would be a practical consideration compared to the firm rule requiring chastity in the Catholic clergy. I do not believe there would be any censure for Gryffud if he had married Angharrad. My point in any event is more about how, whatever he thought was to be achieved by not marrying her, in the end his decision did no one any good.

And I did not say the Morgans felt they were sacrificing their daughter. They also felt she would be better off married to the owners' family. I do think, however, that their agreement to such marriage did foreshadow the opposition to the unionization effort by Mr. Morgan. Did the fact that his daughter was married to the owner's son have a role in his opposition, or would he have been equally opposed even if she was not? I think it was a factor, albeit not the only one.

If as you say the book better explored the relation of labor to capital than the film did fits with why I do not think this film, great as it is, is an overall great film.

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It was Angharad's fault that the people in the village are gossips and intolerant of others?

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