Brought to you by Philip Morris - Dive Bomber (1941) Discussion

[–] wbarnett-3 19 years ago

That was accurate for the time period. Lots more people smoked back then, especially in the military. Soem one from that era would think it looked strange to not show people smoking all through out the picture.

"Complicated as new plowed earth,
Simple as dirt"

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[–] oldman195 17 years ago

Worst part is they were smoking unfiltered coffin nails. An apt name for that incantation of the vice.
And the bit of the dying soldier being offered or asking for a last cigarette, is in nearly every WWII film so it probably wasn't cleverly made up for effect in a movie. Must have been the way things were.

"A lie can travel halfway around the world, before the truth can put it's shoes on."

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[–] r2626 15 years ago

Filter cigarettes were not invented until 1954. So "coffin nails" were all they had to smoke. When I was in the Army in the mid 50's cigarettes were issued to us in our C rations. Cigarettes cost 10 cents a pack at the PX. You could buy them for 25 cents out of a vending machine. Almost everyone smoked in the 50's.

Help stamp out and do away with redundancy

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[–] romarub 17 years ago

Oscarbreath took the wind out of my sails - I was about to post the very same thing. I'll bet that if a survey were taken of most cigarettes consumed during the course of a film, Dive Bomber would have to rank at the top (certainly in the top 3). Overall, this was a very interesting, well-acted film, and the color was of fine quality - a nice surprise. But, as oscarbreath says, it's ironic that these "doctors" should smoke one after the other - even in 1941, which neither explains nor justifies the irony, especially considering that characters who had just gone through a near-death experience might be offered a smoke, and from a doctor. Times have really changed. I wonder if the kids of today would see the irony.

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[–] oldman195 17 years ago

Per Flynn's IMDB bio:
He was a chain smoker. (I believe I once heard he insisted on being able to smoke not only on the set but on camera too)

Although only fifty when he succumbed to a massive heart attack aboard the yacht that had become his home during his final years, the autopsy showed he had the body of a seventy-five-year-old man.

FYI just tuned in TWINS (1988) Schwarzenneger/DeVito and the girls they meet in the grocery store are smoking walking down the aisle. I do remember ashtrays built into shopping carts but I thought they disappeared in the early 70s, or even before.

"A lie can travel halfway around the world, before the truth can put it's shoes on."

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[–] schappe1 17 years ago

...Is when "McFred" and Errol come down after testing the pressure chamber and almost suffocating, the first thing they do when they reach terra firma is to light up and inhale smoke. I'd want to take a big deep breath of fresh air.

Smoking and comedy relief...a sure sign that it's an old movie.

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[–] HoferPM-1 17 years ago

I recently subscribed to TCM and am having such a great time looking at all these films from the 30s, 40s and 50s. I was a child in the 40s so I don't remember even thinking about people smoking because everyone around me did, except my mom. I hope not too many young people see these movies because they might get the idea that smoking is OK. It's amazing that so many doctors and everyone else smoke in these films. In this movie Dive Bombers, good grief, there is Ralph Bellamy and Errol Flynn lighting up continuously. If you look up the bios on a lot of these actors, many of them died of lung cancer, throat cancer and anything related to smoking.

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[–] finally_tina 17 years ago

the best part is when erroll flynn finds respect for ralph bellamy after learning about the major personal sacrifices he made to the military's research efforts and goes to his office late at night to help him with his workload...when bellamy realizes that flynn has changed his tune, he offers him a smoke saying "care for a cigarette, Doctor?" and flynn responds "Don't mind if I do...Doctor"

Hard to imagine this kind of exchange now, but back then not only did Dr's smoke, there were ads for cigarettes that featured doctors extolling the mental health benefits of smoking cigarettes because they "relieve stress"(never mind that the stress they relieved was mostly from nicotine withdrawl)...and Dr. Grabow was a leading brand of tobacco pipes back when those were popular.

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[–] lordhack_99 17 years ago

Cigarettes were liberally handed out to GIs in WW2, and journalist George Seldes, as one who early
pioneered reporting on the link between lung cancer and smoking, had screaming headline in his paper IN FACT about this as a crime against the health of the troops.

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[–] allentbone 17 years ago

In this film the cigs and the gold cigarette cases were all used to symbolize some sort of male bonding. I don't seem to recall any of the women in the film smoking. Maybe those pilots wouldn't have passed out so easily if their lungs weren't coated with tar. A good way to get an unsuspecting friend hammered would be to concoct a insane drinking game around when someone lights up in this movie. From a cigarette ad from that time: "4 out of 5 doctors recommend Camel cigarettes to their patients who smoke."

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[–] kimpunkrock 17 years ago

Back in those days it was not clear that cigarette smoking caused cancer and death. Everyone smoked back then because people have been smoking since the beginning of time and were not aware of the dangers.

As an ex-smoker and a huge classic film fan, every now and again seeing smoking on screen makes me crave a smoke, but I still have the respect for the classics and for those times. People just did not know about the dangers of it. Life expectancy was shorter back then and there were 2 world wars so people just did not care if they smoked or not. They lived in the moment. Which is more than I can say for people of today.

I hope that the smoking in these classic films does not deter people from showing them to the younger generations. There is a lot to learn about the world and society through classic film.

-
kpr

To watch a mini-documentary about me. goto this link:

http://www.tcm.com/mediaroom/index.jsp?cid=186977

The Truth is out there.

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[–] gribfritz2 13 years ago

I'm not a big fan of "they didn't know it was bad for you back then" which I often see. I don't know. Maybe people were dumber back then. If the first time I did something and it made me cough violently and feel like vomiting, I might have a sneaking suspicion it was bad for me.

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[–] Eric-1226 16 years ago

It's worth mentioning that cigarettes in the military were government-subsidized. (Maybe still are, I don't know...) Anyway, you could buy packs/cartons of ciggies a lot cheaper on military bases or onboard ships for much cheaper than you could out in civilian stores. It was easy to get started on smoking while in the service, and easy to stay hooked on the habit. Smokes were almost "handed" to you.

Not only did I notice the prominent smoking in the movie, with the aforementioned irony of doctors offering fellow doctors a smoke, but I also noticed how some of the men failed the "Schneider Index" - a medical test that determined a flyer's ability to keep flying based on various cardiovascular fitness factors. I don't suppose it occurred to anyone back then that all that cigarette smoking just might have been a contributing factor to a pilot's diminishing physical condition, thus causing him to flunk the Schneider Index and get himself "grounded," which for flyers was a fate seemingly worse than death.

One final observation: You never see anybody sitting down to a meal in this picture. Doesn't anybody stop and have a bite to eat? They are only shown smoking and occasionally boozing. We must have had a miraculous military back then: they existed on nothing more than cigarettes and booze. Breakfast of champions, I guess. lol

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[–] willaby-1 16 years ago

Just watched Dive Bomber last night thinking the same about all the smoking. I say John Wayne's "Hatari" wins for cigarette consumption. Felt like I could loose a lung just watching.

Interesting to see the Pt. Loma lighthouse in the background at the end (where Blake crashes). We just visited it days ago, built in 1854.

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[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] willaby-1 16 years ago

Well I do need to get a job, but I'd need a lot more time to post as much as you do.

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[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] trf100 15 years ago

Not only are the doctors smoking A LOT in this film; but did anyone else notice smoking safety concerns?

They were lighting up near oxygen tanks in the hospital AND lighting up near aircraft fueling trucks while fumes were still in the air!!

I couldn’t believe what I was seeing! A haven’t laughed so hard in a long time.

I’m glad that it was only a movie. ;-)

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[–] gerard-21 15 years ago

Again, these were dangers people weren't aware of back then.

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[–] andrewwjohnson 15 years ago

..........Doctors smoking Philip Morris cigarettes? That's ridiculous. Everyone knows more doctors in all branches of medicine smoke Camels at least according to the old ads on U-Tube.............Then there was that commercial with Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble sitting in back of the cave lighting up Winston's. No wonder the Neatherthals went extinct............When "Sesame Street" first came on the Cookie Monster smoked a pipe. He had to quit cold turkey after he swallowed it mistaking it for a cookie. That episode was sponsored by the letter "N" for nicotine poisoning. Today the Cookie monster isn't allowed to eat cookies............Serously folks putting a burning object into ones mouth and inhaling was never a good idea, but for centuries it was considered more less exceptable for generations until the 1964 Surgeon Generals report on smoking and health Like everything else once considered exceptable smoking became deeply ingrained in the popular culture. Its perfectly exceptable for someone to be smoking in a 1941 movie, because they didn't know any better...........In short I don't think to many would want to watch "Casablanca" with all the smoke digitally removed. Just knowing Humphrey Bogart died of lung cancer or the number of people in the greatest generation who came to a premature end, because they smoked them when the got them, should be a good enough deterrent to smoking.
True genius is a beautiful thing, but ignorance is ugly to the bone.

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[–] BlondeVixen 13 years ago

Well, they had to do something for their nerves, and they couldn't drink on duty, so......

<Per Flynn's IMDB bio:
He was a chain smoker. (I believe I once heard he insisted on being able to smoke not only on the set but on camera too>

Must've had to do without when filming Robin Hood & Captain Blood. That would've been odd to see on film.

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[–] shoobe01-1 13 years ago

There were totally studies by 1941 that at least good, serious doctors (like our star researchers) could have read by then. It would seem reasonably likely the hero scientists here would know about this.

Smoking was not common until about WW1. They were not mass produced (had to be hand rolled) until not long before that, so the inter-war period is when it took off. So, a new-ish habit for all these folks.

And... never did 100% of any large population smoke. Without looking, my recollection is it never exceeded 75% in the US. So, plenty of people would not smoke, and it skewed even then for education; the more educated had a lower rate.

As far as the safety concerns (oxygen, fuel) they sure did know that fire was bad. Smoking was totally forbidden, and in the military a safety violation (even in the 40s) was a serious thing you had to talk to people about if caught. No one would be stupid enough to stand around while fueling aircraft and smoke. I am surprised that the Navy let them do it for the movie, even, not for accuracy but for safety.

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[–] skrall-991-949327 10 years ago

The military is not "100 percent of any large population". Filtered for specific people, and even then people that wanted to fit in and totally stressed out.

Misuse of statistics flag thrown. ☺

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[–] Zanza8 11 years ago

Kind of funny to see people crabbing about the cigarette smoke while overlooking the x-rays being taken without any shielding whatsoever. Come on, people-they didn't know everything back then like we do today.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

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