when she said to Joan Fontaine "perhaps you could make yourself useful to Mr. de Winter, if he wants anything done"?
Wasn't he interested in Joan already? He probably wouldn't have had a better chance to get to know her if Mrs. Van Hopper hadn't caught a cold the next day.
prion,
While I would agree that Maxim was interested in Joan's character from the very beginning, it is not clear when he decided to pursue her. Since the film is told from the perspective of the character of the second Mrs. de Winter, it is at some remove from Maxim's thinking. And specifically she is particularly unsure about his intentions and overall state of mind in the first fifteen or so minutes of the film. She, and we, know that he was widowed not too long ago, and (of course well before we find out what he really felt about Rebecca) might still have been in mourning for her. And of course he had not even attempted to kiss her or anything of the sort.
The point is not only did these considerations leave Joan's character unclear as to what Maxim thought of her and might have intended. It is also unclear what he himself intended.
Now of course we later know he wasn't mourning Rebecca in any literal sense of the word at all. But he was arguably dealing with something far worse, and that was the doubt that Joan's character, upon ultimately learning of what had transpired between Rebecca and him, would accept him and still love him. (I think it clear he so anticipated, as is referred to when he said he would remind her of what she had said about loving him.) In short I believe Maxim was far from clear about wanting to pursue Joan's character, due to his own self doubts and what amounted to a concern that any woman would love him if she knew his real story.
I don't think Maxim knew what he intended until he proposed to her. I think the proposal itself was almost made as much to see how she would react as to be his own most fervently held desire, if you will. The encounter itself is perhaps seen by many as more a humorous and out of the ordinary romantic one, but it is also I think an example of brilliant filmmaking and direction. It plays out as a dynamic, where Maxim's efforts to convince her that he is serious also are in effect convincing himself that he is.
Take the part where she says she is not the marrying type, which she clarifies to mean not suitable for him, given his class and wealth. His reaction was to be offended by the notion, and he says he is capable of deciding whether she is suitable for him or not. I interpret that part of the scene as showing him having a growing commitment to the whole concept of marrying Joan's character, and of course this is very soon reinforced by the reaction of Mrs. van Hopper. Brilliant.
Yup, it's a perfect farewell for Mrs. Van Hopper who, in a sense, drives the plot in the first 25 minutes. Not only does her attitude reinforce the class and economic issues, it also makes Maxim seem that much "kinder". Moreover, she provides the bulk of comic relief.
You're definitely onto something crucial here about their relationship. I'm intrigued by the psychology, but not quite sure they're right for each other.
Yes, in a sense, Mrs. Vah Hopper drives the plot for the first part of the movie. Could we then say that Mrs. Danvers drives the second part?
How about part three? Could we say that Jack Favell drives it?
I don't really think the Van Hopper character drove the plot. I do think as I said before that there is something to the notion that Maxim's own commitment to marry Joan's character was in his mind encouraged by Mrs. van Hopper's skeptical reaction. But he had already evidenced that basis for his wish to marry her by Joan's character's own skepticism. But other aspects of the film show Mrs. Van Hopper was serving largely as a "three's company" presence.
As for Mrs. Danvers's role in driving the plot later, there is more to that argument. But it is not entirely accurate, either. While the Danvers character stands as a malevolent and destructive example, she is only the most extreme example of the general skepticism the second Mrs. de Winter experienced at Manderley. No doubt no one else would have pushed her to consider suicide, but it also should not be doubted that she would have had much difficulty even without Danvers's efforts undermining her. Okay, maybe not as much, but still.
And Danvers actually had relatively little to do with advancing the plot after the boat was found, until of course the end. But despite the frisson of fear for Mrs. de Winter's fate as Manderley burns, the literal destruction of the structure I think has more symbolic meaning than it is a literal plot point.
Perhaps in fairness to Marhefka I should not be so literal in minimizing the importance of the Danvers character. I concede that her relation to the film's end is not limited to the literal, as she can arguably be seen (perhaps should be best understood) as Rebecca's agent, with Rebecca reaching from death to destroy Manderley and any long term chance that a second Mrs. deWinter could go forward based on her saved marriage, and remain in Manderley, truly replacing Rebecca.
But I frankly that is too limited an understanding of the real meaning of the film, which briefly I think has much to do with the end of an era, overcoming class divisions, and the social factors that relate to the passing of the landed gentry's domination of society. The ending also asks us to imagine what happens to the marriage between Maxim and his second wife afterward, in the general context of the film's assessment of the state of marriage. Perhaps that latter aspect is the film's most interesting one rather than the notion that Rebecca through the personage of Mrs. Danvers literally burned Manderley to the ground, taking Danny with it.
I think Maxim was immediately taken by the new girl, and that the unexpected demand for her to be in New York presented to him a "now or never" moment.
The new girl, also, had no doubt that she was taken with Maxim.
Those early scenes, and especially those preceding the proposal, depict certain factors that were testing the strength of each of their interest---whether they were really serious or not.
The girl is very persistent in attempting to contact DeWinter, once she knows that her existing situation is calling her away.
And DeWinter, once he sees what needs to be done, does it.
Neither DeWinter nor the girl had any notion that they were pressed for time, until the New York situation arose. They did not, accordingly, have any reason to be especially clear about things so early; they were enjoying themselves and they were checking things out. The girl challenges DeWinter during one of their drives as to his feeling for her and he tells her to get out of the car and walk home if she does not believe he has very strong feelings towards her.
DeWinter's ambivalence and hesitancy was a part of his character, as it had developed after the yet-to-be revealed incidents of his earlier life. The girl's ambivalence and hesitancy was a part of her character, as it was then---in the days before that "look" in her eyes that DeWinter loved disappeared once and for all. Van Hopper serves to establish the reputation and the fame of DeWinter in the girl's eyes. Had she not done so, this might have been quite another kind of romance known to the movies and to literature, the kind where the young woman has no idea what sort of noble or king it is that she is courting and being courted by. A reverse example of that kind of romance is Roman Holiday, where initially Gregory Peck doesn't know who Audrey is.
The dynamic of the film, then, is that DeWinter falls for a young woman who is as unlike his former wife as she could be, and who is obviously uncomfortable under the wing of her employer; while the girl falls for DeWinter, a striking figure perhaps more impressive than any she had known. DeWinter is apprehensive and moody; and she is apprehensive and nervous and shy. Each of them, in their own way and for their own reasons, is self-deprecating.
The film purports to work it all out.
A brief comment on Danvers: her function in the plot is actually similar to Mrs. Van Hopper's function, and in a double sense. First, she is the person under whose wing the new wife falls, after having been under the wing of the old lady. Second, she is symbolic of DeWinter's problem in committing to his new wife. Danvers continually establishes Rebecca's reputation to the girl, just as Van Hopper established DeWinter's reputation to her. Although it is much more than that, the film resolves two questions: will the couple escape Van Hopper (her early life) and will they escape Danvers (his).
He realized Mrs. Van Hopper was an idiot, and he didn't want to impose on the girl.
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