This must be satire - The Mortal Storm (1940) Discussion

[–] sidneyg83 18 years ago

I should add one thing. The Great Dictator is the best anti-Nazi movie out there. The ones that take themselves more seriously tend to fail. Even the successful ones, like Casablanca, relied more on love angles or other such things, and weren't so overt.

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[–] elmo-75 16 years ago

sidneyg83 must be a George Bush supporter. "The Mortal Storm" is a wonderful movie that simply shows that modern-day USA has many disturbing parallels to 1930's Germany: state-supported torture and kidnapping, no habeas corpus, individual rights subjugated to those of The State - right down to TSA-like Nazis going through private luggage, confiscating 'controversial' items.

A profound, prescient movie that should be seen by all freedom-loving individuals (before it is banned as 'anti-American').

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[–] johnrupertg 16 years ago

ELMO-75 I agree with you that "The Mortal Storm" is a wonderful film, and I fear that "sidneyg83" must be ill advised.
I think, however, that you too are ill advised. I do not see the parallel you draw by saying that "sidneyg83" must be a George Bush supporter. Exactly how has President Bush curtailed your freedoms from posting on this site, or indeed from posting anywhere or saying anything? Additionally, when was the last time you or your family was subjected to torture by President Bush? Exactly what individual rights have you forfeited? The TSA and flying: Flying in airplanes is not a guarantee or individual right that you or any other citizen enjoy as guaranteed under the provisions of the U.S. Constitution. You apparently do not travel through Europe/Asia/Africa etc., as the governments of those countries are free to and indeed do go through your luggage.
Lastly, President Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus. It is the right of a citizen to obtain a writ of habeas corpus as a protection against illegal imprisonment. Those sitting in Guantanamo Bay are NOT citizens of this country, and therefore until additional Federal judges say that they should enjoy this right, the jury I am afraid is out. YOU PAINT WITH TOO BROAD A STROKE.

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[–] shortskirtlongjacket451 16 years ago

I told him we're NOT going to talk about politics.

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[–] blckb5364 14 years ago

Well put johnrupertg! Elmo-75 is a moron!!!

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[–] I_Aint_No_Prophet 15 years ago

While I'm not in full agreement with your post (primarily, your conclusion that the OP must've been a supporter of Bush), I must say that the parallels to modern-day America have increased. The scene at the dinner table during Professor Roth's birthday party, where the announcement of the highly-praised, charismatic leader's victory and the high hopes and expectations of restoring the nation's prestige and power are depicted, is particularly striking. The most frightening similarity to Germany during the early-'30s is the continual decrease of our currency's value (thanks to the Federal Reserve), which could eventually lead to the same unrestrained hyperinflation that effectively enabled National Socialism to gain prominence.

That's why you and I don't see eye-to-eye sometimes, Jack; because you're a man of science.

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[–] Whythorne 15 years ago

What's interesting is that as I was watching this yesterday, I was thinking this is what you could easily get in an Obama America (as opposed to a Bush America!) It's the Obama phenomenon that has far more parallel with what this movie communicates, what with the hysterical loyalty caused over his cult of personality. You've got a lot of people actually believing that Obama is the Messiah...that's not something that Bush ever fostered. Further, it's liberalism that is more akin to Nazi socialism. It's the far left that believes the more government involvement and control the better. Remember, it was Obama's Chief of Homeland Security who earlier this year was putting out memos stating that anyone who doesn't think like a liberal should be put on a terrorist watchlist. That parallels this movie to a tee.

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[–] I_Aint_No_Prophet 15 years ago

That's sort of what I was alluding to when referencing the dinner table scene: when Obama won the election, the majority of people reacted like Freya's brothers did, while relatively few lamented the victory like Professor Roth and Martin did. Obviously, the Obamenon is the reason that his critics compare him to Hitler, since, despite Bush's statist policies, he never had the loyalty that Obama does.

It's the far left that believes the more government involvement and control the better.

Isn't peculiar that many of the people who held such a strong anti-government sentiment during the '60 and '70s have changed their tune so drastically?

However, while I see your point, I do have to disagree with your generalization of liberalism being more like the Nazi Party than neoconservatism is. Neoliberalism is just as bad as neoconservatism, but not necessarily worse. They both hold big government and big business in higher priority than the general populace, which is dangerously close to fascist ideals. A widespread misconception is the idea that the political spectrum is linear, with the extreme-left socialists at one end and the extreme-right fascists at the other. It's better to imagine the political spectrum two-dimensionally, as a square tilted 45 degrees so that it's standing on one of its corners, sort of like a diamond, I suppose.

../\..
./..\.
/....\
\..../
.\../.
..\/..

Anyhow, if you divide it in half, vertically, you can imagine varying degrees of left and right positions. Now, consider the point where the left and right meet at the top as being the best of both worlds -- an absolutely free, almost utopian, society where individual liberty is so valuable that we can live by a shared set of moral laws with virtually no government, but where each individual is compassionate enough to ensure that no one else suffers from a lack of basic human needs, such as food, shelter, and clothing. We can call this libertarian socialism (a la Noam Chomsky). Of course, the complete opposite of that would be the point at which the left and right meet at the bottom, and this position would be characterized by the worst that both sides have to offer -- a tyrannical, statist government whose policies and restrictions provide individuals with not even the most basic liberties, such as free speech and free thought, and where all of our needs are met by enforced regulations dictated by the state in return for a life of service to the government, which is in a perpetual state of war with the purpose of building an empire and maintaining corporate interests. We can call this authoritarian socialism, or fascism.

.....libertarian...
........../\........
........./..\.......
..left./.....\.right
wing\...../.wing
.........\../.......
..........\/........
...authoritarian..

Recently, the left-right paradigm has been criticized as obsolete. When we view the political spectrum this way, we can see that the difference between left and right becomes trivial as the true concern becomes whether we veer more toward the top or the bottom.

That's why you and I don't see eye-to-eye sometimes, Jack; because you're a man of science.

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[–] deborahajmiller_1 12 years ago

Very good explanation of the political spectrum. Should be required reading, somewhere! Everywhere!

I do like what you posted and thought about pasting it in a mass email to all my friends. As for the movie, I will watch because it came out in 1940 and is about people living in Germany during Hitler's reign.

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[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] marudd50 11 years ago

I support the president and worked in both his campaigns. I have never, once, heard anyone refer to Obama as the Messiah or suggest anything of the sort. I am so tired of people just making stuff up or imagining stuff. Perhaps we should discuss something more concrete--like W's IQ, which totters at the low end of normal.

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[–] cyclura-1 11 years ago

It is an interesting irony to review these comments about the George Bush Years versus the rise of Hitler. I wonder how theses same people feel regarding those same issues after 5 years under the "transformative" Barrack Obama?

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[–] zbacku 15 years ago

The parallels are even MORE apparent now that we have the messiah Obama.
The Democrazis are now in control.

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[–] hello_happy_fatty 12 years ago

You've truly embarrassed yourself with your ignorant remark. Only the right-wing consider Obama the messiah. And the Nazis were a right-wing group who imprisoned the intellectuals, liberals, socialists, etc. Comparing either major US party to them is foolish, but the left-leaning Democratic Party is not the one with more in common.

What Obama, a centrist by any realistic standard (i.e. not Fox "News"), understands is that true liberty cannot exist in a capitalist society where people are becoming more and more impoverished by big business and a feral powerful elite minority. By expanding opportunity, liberty expands accordingly. It's a shame the Republican Party has abandoned true conservatism — in favor of pandering to religious zealots, right-wing anti-government ideologues, and laissez-faire capitalist extremists — that they're too blind to see this. While they talk about liberty, they put up roadblocks to it and drive the nation further from the center and toward the right-wing and authoritarian poles.

Messiah? That's the language of fools.

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[–] Chiscully 9 years ago

Yes, thee years later, but still true and well put.

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[–] waldenpond88 12 years ago

Elmo-75,

I hardly ever was able to watch this movie on German TV, because it was considered anti-German :). Over here it's on TCM at least once a year.
So if it's on the list of anti-American movies and on the list of anti-German movies who will show this film still?

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[–] drjeff21 11 years ago

Why would you say "has to be a George Bush supporter"? I was a Bush supporter and think it is an excellent film. Parallels to the USA under Bush? Perhaps, but even more so under Obama.

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[–] mam13143 10 years ago

Don't know why being critical of this film makes someone a George bush supporter. I too found it a bit heavy handed obviously intended to elicit anti-nazi sympathy. Not a bad thing, don't get me wrong. But after the first 30 minutes it has said it all and the rest of the movie just continues the same theme. Michael Moore would love this movie, he could watch it over and over in his multimillion dollar mansion.

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[–] uscmd 10 years ago

As I see it, Sydney got only 1 thing right, The Great Dictator is/was a great movie.

As for this one, I agree it is a bit guilty of hammy over acting.........BUT, I feel its movies of this ilk which will serve to educate younger generations, say 50 years from now of the subtle evils of Hitlers group in the beginning.

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[–] DoctorStrangelove 18 years ago

The movie's decent. You need to watch it with your 1940s glasses on, and try not to be so cynical.

Earnestness isn't campy.

Last seen:
Red River - 8/10

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[–] jim-507 14 years ago

Yes, that is the whole point. The movie was made in 1940. The creators and actors didn't have the hindsight we enjoy about what was to come. While watching this film, I kept thinking how much worse things were about to get. People in 1940 were mostly oblivious to what was going on in Germany. This film at least tried to alert them. That was a brave and important thing.

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[–] marvi1 18 years ago

Yes, this movie is very disturbing when it's viewed in context, considering that the US wasn't even in the war yet. Of course, the most glaring omission, in my opinion, is of the word "Jewish" and "Jew" (or perhaps "Juden"), using "Non-Arayan" instead. That's not bad for 1940.

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[–] Chiscully 9 years ago

It does seem odd now (writing in 2015) that they say "non-Aryan" in the film. While factually true (it was about Aryan purity and Jews, gypsies, homosexuals and others were targets), we know today about the extermination of Jewish people that was to come after 1933 (the setting of this film). At the time this movie was made, Americans were still not fully comprehensive of the horrors that had being going on for years already. That the words "Jew" and "Jewish' are no used at all still seems strange to me. Was it a deliberate omission and if so why?

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[–] rondine 17 years ago

I couldn't disagree more with you.

remember when the movie was made & you will be AMAZED...

you wouldn't happen to be a Nazi sympathizer, would you?

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[–] hobnob53 17 years ago

Anyone who favorably compares TRIUMPH OF THE WILL to this film (or any anti-Nazi film), even "just" as propaganda, has a screw loose.

TRIUMPH was made to glorify a regime led by a bunch of murderous, barbaric psychopaths. MORTAL STORM had a political point of view, but it was primarily a piece of entertainment, and even some of its political punches were shamefully pulled (refusing to use the word "Jewish" in favor of the ridiculous "non-Aryan", as has been pointed out).

Despite its flaws, one thing it is not is "cheesy". This is a first-rate production in any sense you'd care to talk about. The performances may be more a matter of opinion but I know of no one else who thinks any actor in this film is bad.

The most idiotic comment was to call this "satire" a "parody". Whatever criticism can be leveled at this film, and I have some, nothing in it qualifies as a parody, of anything. And "camp"? My God, do you know anything about what was going on in the world between 1933 and 1945? The ignorance of history, of what really happened to real people, that some persons demonstrate is beyond belief. And incidentally, using the word "camp", under the circumstances, is doubly unfortunate.

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[–] Ironman54 17 years ago

"Non Aryan" is proper. It was not just the Jews being persecuted given what was known in 1940. Hitler condemned all but those of Aryan blood so Non Aryan spells it out perfectly. Had this movie been made in 1945 then yes, I would question its use. This movie is no doubt an over simplification of the rise of the Nazi Party in pre war Germany but how do you get the main points across in a 90 minute movie ? Anyone seeing this movie in 1940, regardless of education, came away with a good idea of what the future of Germany seemed to be and the future the Furher wanted to impose on the rest of the world. It did its job very well I think. If you were human at all you knew what side you wanted to fight for ! Don't forget that Hitler had an American version of the "Brown Shirts" here trying to recruit American youth. By simplifying the issues any 17 year old from the Bronx was given a glimpse of what was really behind the Nazi propaganda. There was nothing "propaganda" about this film. Many families did indeed find themselves in exactly these same situations as the Nazi Party grew in strength.This should be viewed as an anti propaganda film if anything.I think we've learned that material concerning Jewish persecution only leaves too many in this world comforted by the fact that they are not Jewish so it doesn't concern them, no need to panic and march off to war. "Non Aryan" covers a lot and, had Hitler won and remained in power, G_d knows what would have gone on in the pursuit of establishing who was of Aryan blood and who was not. Of course Hitler himself may have found himself hung by his own petard as successive generations replaced the old blood and the purging and madness continued ! Then again, he may have been "grandfathered" in ! The Nazi characters seemed wooden and almost in a trance like and paranoid state - do you think this is
inaccurate ?

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[–] hobnob53 17 years ago

The book on which the film was based used the word "Jew" and "Jewish". In one sense, what you say about the generic meaning of "non-Aryan" is correct, but the fact is that in this film MGM deliberately chose to expunge any use of the term "Jew" so as not to offend the audience in what was for many a very controversial film at the time. The studios were very reluctant to make explicitly anti-Nazi films prior to the American entry into the war. In fact, during the early filming of MRS. MINIVER in late 1941, Louis B. Mayer called director William Wyler into his office and demanded that the German flyer discovered in Mrs. M's garden be depicted as an anti-Nazi, "good" German. Wyler was furious and refused, but their fight continued for a few more days until Pearl Harbor was attacked. Shortly thereafter, Mayer told Wyler to keep the German a fanatical, unrepentant Nazi after all (which is also how the actor in the part, Helmut Dantine, an anti-Nazi refugee, wanted to play him). The studio moguls (almost all of whom were Jewish) were terrified of being accused of using their power to produce movies that could be attacked as "interventionist" and, by extension, as "Jewish" films by isolationists and anti-Semites such as Charles Lindbergh and America First.

Certainly THE MORTAL STORM was propaganda, but not in the way that an explicit film such as TRIUMPH OF THE WILL was. It was anti-Nazi in its outlook and in its theme, which makes it propagandistic. Of course, this was "good" propaganda. The Nazis shown in the film were kind of one-dimensional, but then I don't think their outward behavior was much different from that of the real thing. What I can't understand is how Mrs. Roth's sons from her first marriage could have become Nazis in the first place, given their home environment and stepfather, and how the Roths seemed to have had little inkling of their beliefs (and Fritz's) until Hitler comes to power on Professor Roth's 60th birthday.

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[–] puzzow 17 years ago

How could the Roth's sons get recruited by the Nazi's?- I'll tell you: they were brainwashed in the schools, they were influenced by what they heard on the radio and read in the newspapers, they succumbed to the pressure of their friends and everyone around them. Kids get influenced to go against their parents all the time, because they are young and impressionable and because they want to be part of the next big thing.

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[–] puzzow 17 years ago

And I don't see this film as propaganda. This is a pretty accurate representation of what was going in Germany-- people were seduced by Hitler's charisma and didn't recognize what he was or what he had in store for them, the youth got indoctrinated by the Nazis, and anyone who didn't go along with the flow started "disappearing."

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[–] puzzow 17 years ago

And I don't see this film as propaganda. This is a pretty accurate representation of what was going in Germany-- people were seduced by Hitler's charisma and didn't recognize what he was or what he had in store for them, the youth got indoctrinated by the Nazis, and anyone who didn't go along with the flow started "disappearing."

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[–] kathykato 16 years ago

I suppose there is a mindset that would classify any of the films made during the black and white film era as "cheesy." These older films lack the modern techno-color, special effects, computer graphics, etc. of our modern times. What these older films do have, though, is sincerity, good acting, non-offensive language, and entertainment value that isn't based on excess vulgarity for cheap laughs. I'm not saying that I don't occasionally enjoy a movie like "Knocked Up," but that I enjoy the innocence of the classics. Some of my old favorites include "It's a Wonderful Life," "Mr. Deeds Goes to Washington," any of the old Boris Karloff horror flicks, any of the early Cary Grant films, etc. etc.

I thought "The Mortal Storm" was not only done in good taste, it was also a brave film to have been produced and aired in 1940. The producers, directors, and actors were attempting to expose the dangers of the Nazi movement even before we entered the war or had an idea of the extent of the atrocities that were going on. And I respect Robert Young for taking on such a role--it definitely was outside the box of his typical roles.

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[–] jackboot 15 years ago

Ironman54 ~ "Non Aryan" is proper. It was not just the Jews being persecuted given what was known in 1940. Hitler condemned all but those of Aryan blood so Non Aryan spells it out perfectly. ...we've learned that material concerning Jewish persecution only leaves too many in this world comforted by the fact that they are not Jewish so it doesn't concern them, no need to panic and march off to war.

Very good point, Ironman54

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[–] gjampol 16 years ago

In 1940, opinion about the war in Europe and the role America should play was divided between isolationist and interventionist camps. The 1939 Warner Brothers film "Confessions of a Nazi Spy" was very daring for its time and was attacked by isolations as propaganda.

Hollywood was under suspicion for promoting U.S. involvement in the war, Isolationists accused pro-British and Jewish groups of wanting to drag America into the fight.

The "Mortal Storm" was MGM's attempt to awaken the country to the Nazi threat. Before the picture was released, studio chief Louis B. Mayer was warned by a German counselor official that release of the film would jeopardize MGM's European interests. Nevertheless, the studio released the film.

It's a chilling tale of how Hitler's appointment tore a family apart. One family member, Professor Roth (Frank Morgan), was beloved by his students and full-blooded Aryan sons. But Roth was non-Aryan (Jewish, in other words).

The film depicts the intolerent attitudes of the Nazi storm stroopers and their brutalization of people who did not get on the Nazi bandwagon.

What's important here is not so much the "Mortal Storm's" virtues as a film, but the fact that it was made at all. The movie is well-made, and was one of about a dozen films that disturbed the isolationists, some of whom were influential U.S. Senators.

Such films as "Sergeant York", "Confessions of a Nazi Spy" and "Dive Bomber" became targets of the isolationists. But all the attacks vanished on Dec. 7, 1941. Hollywood became an important element in winning the war.

These films served their purpose, and uninformed and shirll attracks on them only bring discredit on people who take pleasure in belittling them.

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[–] ljspin 15 years ago

I have seen this film and, if enjoyed is the right word, have enjoyed it. Although the film may have its melodramatic moments, the fnal scene with Freya's brothers is startling and disturbing. One brother states that she deserved her death; the other that she was murdered for going against the "rules" of the German government.
I've noticed that other posters have referred to modern times. This movie DOES evoke references to modern politics. Before 9/11, no one would care about what we were posting here. Now, anything we post here, in our personal email, or take out from the local library are, if someone above deems it is necessary, subject to review. "National security" is the same term used by Naxi Germany to justify its invasion into the lives of private citizens. Remember, Benjamin Franklin, whose risked his life, his property, and the lives and property of his family, wrote: Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
I guess I am in the minority. I believe that we, as Americans, should follow Franklin's directions, rather than sit in our recliners in front of the television.

Spin

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[–] stratorick 15 years ago

Perhaps you should get out your dictionary and look up the word satire. While you have it out "camp" as well. There is nothing remotely camp about this movie.

Waste anything except TIME time is our shortest material

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[–] maeaculpa 15 years ago

agree totally. What satire? It is melodramatic and it has a political message, so you can call it propaganda, but then once you look closely most media are propaganda of one form or another and the term loses its meaning. Triumph Des Willens is just very obvious propaganda, made by a propaganda ministry, but most people have an agenda. And I say melodramatic in a good way - they are talking about a huge scale human tragedy, most of which had not even been revealed in 1940. It is a surprisingly accurate view of things that were to come.

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[–] oldmotem 15 years ago

Great movie and a great comment thread. And for the people that did not see them mention anything about "Jewish" did you see the two big "J" letters on Frank Morgan's sleeves during the prison visit scene (when his wife visited him). That's probably all that was allowed past censors of the day. This must have been filmed in 1939. Very early on in the war, when most countries denied the existence of any German concentration camps. Some still do, I expect. And when America was doing its utmost to stay out of the war and wallow in its own depression.

However, a top notch movie with a still important message, as might be guessed from the variety of politics involved in this discussion of it.

As far as Frank Morgan being a versatile actor, look at him in this movie and in "The Shop Around The Corner" where he was given a "troubled" role and then move on to "The Wizard of Oz." Definitely a great actor.

I barely recognized Elliot Ness...I mean Robert Stack... in this film.

Nice snow scenes. A great period piece.

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[–] collie-12 14 years ago

Satire? Cheesy? Campy? Parody? Propaganda? An embarrassing joke? Did you watch the same film I just did? I found it incredibly moving, thought provoking, and actually rather subtle in its lack of gratuitous on-screen violence. Oh and by the way, I thought the acting was good. Are you sure you watched MGM's 1940 film titled "The Mortal Storm" with Sullavan, Stewart, Morgan, Young and Stack?

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[–] kingarthurup 14 years ago

YOU ARE A LIBTARD.

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[–] TheWanderingFish 12 years ago

Come now - libertarians may, generally speaking, have a pretty simplistic worldview (it's always amusing to watch them blame the Federal Reserve for everything, even as they demonstrate a profound ignorance of economics), but they certainly don't deserve to be called names like that. There are extremely smart libertarians, just as there extremely smart conservatives and extremely smart liberals.

Having lived in several different parts of the country, I can also safely say that the average libertarian is no more or less intelligent than the average liberal or the average conservative. They're all easily misled and everyone has to struggle to overcome bad thinking and bad ideas - but that's just a part of the human condition.

I suppose on a clear day you can see the class struggle from here

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