MovieChat Forums > The Women (1939) Discussion > My Theory (for Norma fans)

My Theory (for Norma fans)

posted 14 years ago by scrap-7
4 replies | jump to latest

I must disclose right upfront that I worship at the foot of Norma's throne. I have seen almost everything left to see of her movies (some silents did not survive); I've also read all of the published bios of her and of Irving, plus Complicated Women, the book that was the basis for TCM's documentary hosted by Jane Fonda.

The very first movie of hers I ever saw was her 1925 silent Lady of the Night in which she played two characters and my lips to God's ear, it wasn't until the big scene in the car backseat with both of them together that I finally snapped that both were Norma! That sealed it for me. The entire movie, I always knew exactly what she was thinking and was completely enthralled and awed by her. Any of you who doubt her talent, watch that movie, I dare you!

Norma's work in The Women is not among my favorite performances, but it is still, in my opinion, about the best that any other actress could give it. The character is not immediately likeable, nor should she be. Remember, a contrast between Mary and Crystal needs to be set, as well as some ornery edges to Mary at the beginning that plays on the viewer's subconscious to *understand* Steven's wanderings. Don't blame Norma for doing that perfectly!

Anyway, here's my theory. Okay, Cukor, the director, had already been fired off the Gone With The Wind set because Gable complained to the producer and his hunting buddy Zanuck that because Cukor was such a good women's director, that he (Gable) was in danger of getting completely ignored. He wanted his other hunting buddy Victor Fleming to direct. (I've stuck to fact here...there are also the rumors that Gable was skeeved out by Cukor's gay sexuality, but for whatever reason, Cukor was fired and had hurt feelings about it to the point that he continued to give personal direction meetings with de Havilland and Leigh off-set).

So, the movie Cukor ends up with after GWTW is this one, The Women. Rich, eh? Almost like, okay, so I'm a women's director, I'll show them! And since Crawford was hired as Crystal and she had almost completely by herself invented this feud between herself and Norma (Crawford being the beyotch prima donna narcissist that she was), my theory is that Cukor moved heaven and earth to get Norma for Mary, as this would ensure that Hedda Hopper and the movie rags would have coniptions over the two of them appearing as adversaries and help propel the movie to box-office success.

Any comments welcome, as long as Norma is respected -- Crawford-dissing, however, is welcomed too.

[–] Muscle_Queen 14 years ago

JOan Crawford is fabulous in this movie and steals every scene she is in. Love it and love her.

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] charcas67 13 years ago

Back then the producers had more of a say of which stars were cast in leading roles then directors. Shearer was the natural choice to play Mary Haines...the role fit well with her image (leading lady of the theater roles) and was a code era variation of her Oscar winning role from The Divorcee. I doubt any other actress was ever considered for the part. The only other MGM star who could have been plausible as Mary Haines might have been Myrna Loy. It was Crawford who had to persuade Louis B. Mayer to give her the part of Crystal as he was reluctant to cast her in such an unsympathetic role but Crawford knew Crystal was a good part.

[–] dvlaries 11 years ago

Although both Crawford and Russell had to lobby for their parts, producer Hunt Stromberg had wanted Norma from the very beginning for Mary Haines. So did Louis B. Mayer for her box office value; "Marie Antoinette" had been an enormous success just the year before. Crawford's last six films, with the exception of "The Gorgeous Hussy" had not made money, and Russell was unproven at comedy. ("The Women," followed immediately by "His Girl Friday" ended that question forever.)

Norma was not thrilled, thought Mary bland and too noble and was privately nervous of appearing with so many actresses younger than she, but she was also a trooper and a "company man" since the founding of the studio.

The polite hostility between Shearer and Crawford was true enough, but both were also shrewd enough to know that it made juicy copy, and would propel the film to greater success. No matter how much or little they cared for one another, both loved a hit.

Mick LaSalle in "Complicated Women" (Thomas Dunne Books, 2000) put the most sensible spin on the Shearer/Crawford matter I've read yet:

"It wasn’t just a case of opposites not attracting. It was also a case of like types banging heads. Both were monumentally ambitious, but while Shearer’s ambition was fueled by a confident nature, Crawford’s was fueled by insecurity and aggression. Sensing in Shearer some of the same appetite to eat the world that she herself possessed, how could Crawford not see her rival’s warmth as a big act, a privileged girl’s veneer? While Shearer grew up in comfortable surroundings and only knew hard times when she became a teenager, Crawford was weaned on abuse and rejection. Two daddies deserted the family before she was ten. While still a child, she cleaned toilets in a boarding school for girls and was disciplined with a broom handle."

LaSalle does a fantastic job, not only resurrecting Shearer's Pre-Code primacy, but also makes an able case that, far more than a threat to each other, the greater damage done to both was Joseph L. Breen's absolute power, by mid-1934, in enforcing the censorship code.

The risky, envelope-pushing roles both loved (Shearer's "Free Soul," "Divorcee," "Strangers May Kiss"; Crawford's "Paid," Possessed," and "Sadie McKee") were history, and there'd be no more. Every unmarried character they'd subsequently played would be an unambiguous virgin till a date at the altar. This pushed Shearer into costume dramas and Crawford into sexless comedies and weepy soaps. They weren't nearly one another's threat as they were Breen's victims, along with a slew of other great actresses.

- -
Truth is a hard master, and costly to serve, but it simplifies every problem.