MovieChat Forums > Volodymyr Zelenskyy Discussion > Ukraine's new offensive? June 2023

Ukraine's new offensive? June 2023


You would think with all the bluster and propaganda we have heard for a year and a half, if Ukraine was making any progress attacking Russia we'd be hearing about it from every angle.

All the contrarians who have been trying to get the truth out concerning this PROVOKED war have been consistently correct as to what happened, what is happening now, and what will happen in the future.

The US has set all of us up for a massive attitude adjustment. Here we have another massive group of hundreds of thousands of soldiers and civilians dead for no reason and are responsible for bringing war and destruction on yet another country.

Who the F is really leading the US, because we never heard about what has been going on in Ukraine for a decade, and when you study it decades before.

We paid for the war ... are we going to cheat the American people and have to pay for the peace as well?

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We're not the only ones paying for that war. Billions are coming from the EU and Great Britain. They're closer to the conflict, let them pay.

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They are only gaining a few square miles a day. By that calculation the war will be over in 2203.

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No dummy. They dont tell that in your moms basement and in the Game of Thrones they had one big battle for one day and Jon Snow won by defeating that Night King. But real word is not like that. Putin and Zelenskyy are not gonna have one last stand off on the battlefield with swords.

What Ukraine army does is they keep destroying russian artillery, tanks and ammo with their own artillery and push and push. Like it was in Kherson and Kharkiv area in the autumn. Eventually in Kharkiv area russian front just collapsed one day and they started running in all directions. And from Kherson area they just ran off after months of being hit with Ukrainian artillery and HIMARS.

Same will happen in the south. Ukraine will push and russian front will collapse under constant shelling. And they will run away like they did from Kyiv and Kherson.

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It's the Russians that have the ammunition and have dug in to the buffer zone they currently claim. They ain't gonna back away from and that it is easier for them to play defense.

Ukraine attacks across a flat plain and Russia has radar and air and drone superiority and has just been picking them off. Ukrainian soldiers are reportedly refusing to attack.

When Ukraine exhausts itself, they might have a summit, but if Russia doesn't get what it wants it will drop out. There should be no reason Russia should ask for equal to or less than what Ukraine was ready to sign in March or 2022 in Turkey. Ukraine is fucked, and the bad thing is that Zelensky knows this. It's like Johnson keeping men in Vietnam while they died when he knew we had lost the war and Nixon was looking for "peace with honor". Peace with honor, when the US took the way over from France, started the escalation - abused that country more than any country in the world had ever been bombed ... and the whole area of Southeast Asia, and then demands it be respected when it finally gives up ... while the taxpayers at home went into debt over Vietnam, and Republicans claimed we had spent the Social Security budget on Vietnam so they would have to end Social Security.

It is the same f'n BS today - they are always trying to weaken, disinform, mislead, disempower American citizens - especially minorities, and put our whole focus on war and empire. That age is over and done with.

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"reportdely....."

Reportedly by whom? russian propaganda? LOL. Its very hard to have a conversations with ruzzian zombies who eat ruzzian propaganda all day and live in their own little echo chamber.

Just understand one tinng, son. russia lies. Always. About everything. 24/7. This is who they are, this is in their DNA, basically. They cant help themselves. 95% what you read on russian sources about war is a lie.

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LOL is always a great argument for right-wing nitwits.

The US is the biggest liar in history.

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this hasnt aged very well...

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What?

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its been 2 months...I thought Ukraine was going to win this war? I guess we will have to wait until the next spring offensive....dont forget to send Z your money, he needs a few billion this week...

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LOL. Did you really thought war will end in 2 months? Real war is not video game or Game of Thrones tv version of fight with White Walkers where Jon and Arya beat them up in 2 hours.

This is how real war is going. First you try to stop them. Then start pushing back. Then step by step you push and push enemy out. Do you even know how long WW2 lasted? And it was whole world against hitler. Millions of soldiers and tanks and planes. Ukraine has to fight on its own without help of other soldiers and has very few weapons. Even planes is hard to get.

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the Afghanistan war lasted 20 years. we lost that war....women have no rights again. thanks dems...

also no one cares that women are mistreated and have no rights in afghanistan...

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How is this relevant to this case? USA didnt lose Afghanistan war. They won it and then gave everything to Afghanistan people - money, knowledge and weapon to defend themselves. They taught them how to use it. And left because USA, unlike nazi russia - are not occupants. They dont invade countries to declare them parts of USA.

Problem was in Afghanistan people who didnt want to fight for their freedom and better life. All their police and army people dropped their weapons and ran away. And all other men of country just looked in apathy at everything, not defending themselves. They chose this path to live under terror and oppression. What can you do.

Its completely different situation in Ukraine where men went to defend their country the first day of invasion. And Ukraine fights for its freedom and begs USA for more weapon.

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Dude I cant even understand if you are russian bot on payrol or you are this empty headed.

Stop embarrassing yourself. You sound like a 13-years old who got his education on Tik-Tok videos about conspiracy theories.

Nothing you say have any meaning. Its like random words with no connection to itself or reality. Try to find therapist and lay off trump twitter echo chamber. It may have sense to trump loonies who live there but makes no sense in real world.

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Do you think Ukraine is winning and Putin is to blame for the riots and looting in France ?

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That poster is probably a Russian propagandist but it's possible they are just against the "mainstream media". A lot of people get their news from social media personalities with the mistaken belief that they are getting the real news but many Russian propagandists are spreading disinformation on social media.

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TrentnQuarantino is a solid poster on here and not a Russian propagandist!

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Finally 2 fascists found each other and spread now propaganda for that corrupt Ukrainian asshole. Or is it the same bot occupying 2 accounts? Who cares...

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Yes. There is some hilarious meme about it. Can’t find it now. How all those idiots who are "against the mainstream media" and think they get "real news" from twitter pages in reality just repeat russian propaganda they read on twitter. And those imbeciles truly believe they "know the truth" :)

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Ukraine won't advertise their troop movements since Russia can wipe them out with missile strikes. Russia is dug in and neither side has air superiority. There may not be any quick breakthroughs.

https://www.npr.org/2023/06/24/1184152255/why-ukraines-counteroffensive-is-going-to-slower-than-desired

https://breakingdefense.com/2023/03/in-ukraine-fight-integrated-air-defense-has-made-many-aircraft-worthless-us-air-force-general/

A big factor will be how long the Russian people approve of their young men dying in a senseless conflict. Russia has plenty of land and resources so there is no need to die in Ukraine. Ukraine is fighting for its existence so they will fight to the last man provided they receive weapons. The Wagner march towards Moscow is a sign of trouble at home. Putin's ability to send young men to die in Ukraine may be hindered when the Russian people awaken. The sanctions are also hurting Ukraine BUT many nations like China and Iran are supplying Russia with supplies for their invasion.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/chinese-state-company-supplied-gunpowder-184000394.html

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It is not Russia that is being decimated. It is Ukraine.
Ukrainian soldiers are refusing to attack.
Ukraine never existed as an independent nation, and if you know anything
about Ukraine you would understand why it would never be a stable country.
Look at the political demographics on almost every issue and it is split lengthwise
down the middle of the country - east versus west.
To be stable Ukraine should have been partitioned into East and West Ukraine,
but the US had to find and exploit the violent Nazi nationalists in the West and
give them aid so they were strong enough to threaten and manipulate their
President into war - even when he got elected by promised peace and an end
to the violence.
Expert after expert has said before, during and after that Ukraine is not in the
vital interests of the US, except to supply us with a new BS war.

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Both sides are being decimated. This is an actual war that kills people. Russian men are
being drafted and sent to DIE. A lot of Russian soldiers are surrendering since they realize
it's a stupid war. Wagner Group had to recruit prisoners since many young men fled the country.
Russia also has been heavily drafting ethnic minorities instead of white Russians. There will be
more resistance when more young men from Moscow and St. Petersburg start dying. Putin is losing grip on power due to the unpopularity of the war. There could be more rebellions in the near future and Russia might even split into many different countries. China has claims on Outer Manchuria so they might want to stabilize that region.

https://thediplomat.com/2022/10/the-war-in-ukraine-is-decimating-russias-asian-minorities/

Ukraine did achieve independence in 1919 and unsuccessfully fought the Bolsheviks until 1922.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/ukraine-declares-its-independence

I traveled as a tourist to Ukraine, Crimea and Moldova via Transnistria. I know a lot about Ukraine and that's why I am passionate about countering the disinformation spread by Russian propagandists.

Russian propagandists are arguing that Ukraine should be split between the west and the east. The website below disputes that Russian propaganda point by noting that Ukrainians lived all throughout Ukraine. Many ethnic Ukrainians never spoke Russia due to Russian policies that sought to extinguish the Ukrainian language.

https://voxukraine.org/en/the-corrupt-mirror-of-russian-propaganda-words-that-kill/ * Myth #7

The USA, UK and Russia signed the Bucharest Memorandum that guaranteed the security of Ukraine's border in exchange for Ukraine forfeiting their nuclear arsenal. Russia violated that agreement in 2014 when they invaded both Crimea and eastern Ukraine. The experts that you listen to are Russian propagandists. The US made a commitment to protect Ukraine's borders.

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'The USA, UK and Russia signed the Bucharest Memorandum that guaranteed the security of Ukraine's border in exchange for Ukraine forfeiting their nuclear arsenal. Russia violated that agreement in 2014 when they invaded both Crimea and eastern Ukraine. The experts that you listen to are Russian propagandists. The US made a commitment to protect Ukraine's borders.'

Which other countries signed the Bucharest Memorandum? And what happened to it just prior to 2014? And finally, what is the US' official stance on the Bucharest Memorandum due to that 'incident'? Let me know what you find out.

"Russian propagandists are arguing that Ukraine should be split between the west and the east. The website below disputes that Russian propaganda point by noting that Ukrainians lived all throughout Ukraine. Many ethnic Ukrainians never spoke Russia due to Russian policies that sought to extinguish the Ukrainian language."

When was the Ukrainian language born? Or Ukraine/Russia for that matter?

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Ukraine never had a nuclear arsenal.

And, by the way, there was no Bucharest Memorandum, it was the Budapest Memorandum.

All I do post facts, and all your porkers do is tell me they are Russian propaganda, but you cannot get shit straight. One way you can tell American propaganda - it is never right and not doesn't add up.

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responding to the wrong person

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Dude, you are literally posting garbage ruzzian propaganda that even russian people dont take serious anymore and stopped pretending they believe in it. Only trumpists and crazy delusional conspiracy theorists in USA still believe it. Because they are stupid and got their education in moms basement.

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Ukraine did have Soviet nuclear missiles on their territory but they did not the launch codes. They did transfer the missiles to Russia as part of the Budapest Memorandum. While I did accidentally type Bucharest in my original post, my original link did detail the Budapest Memorandum.

https://www.icanw.org/did_ukraine_give_up_nuclear_weapons

You post alternative facts and disinformation from Russian propagandists. You cannot deny it!

Slava Ukraini! Putin khuylo!

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Putin Coolio?

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The main signatories of the Bucharest Memorandum were the USA, UK, Russia and Ukraine. The US still stands by the Bucharest Memorandum and that's why the UK and the USA are both supplying weapons to Ukraine. The US incorrectly thought that sanctions would get Russia to behave BUT their bad behavior only increased. Russia was kicked out of the G8 after the annexation of Crimea.

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2014/03/25/joint-statement-united-states-and-ukraine

https://www.cnn.com/2014/03/24/politics/obama-europe-trip/index.html

It looks as if the differences between the Ukrainian, Belarusian and Russian languages developed after the fall of the Kyivan Rus Empire in the 13th Century when the Mongols showed up.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Ukrainian-language

https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2014/03/15/the-long-war-over-ukrainian-language/HXlLbK9wVnhwGShNVPKIUP/story.html

https://www.thearchaeologist.org/blog/origin-of-kievan-rus-the-big-northeastern-european-federation-of-the-9th-century * Kyivan Rus history *






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Trent is right - Bucharest Memorandum does not exist. Now, try again regarding the Budapest Memorandum. Which other countries signed the Budapest Memorandum? And what happened to it just prior to 2014? And finally, what is the US' official stance on the Budapest Memorandum due to that 'incident'? Let me know what you find out.

When I google 'when did the Ukrainian language come into existence' - I get this response -
Direct written evidence of the existence of the Ukrainian language dates to the late 16th century. By the 16th century, a peculiar official language formed: a mixture of the liturgical standardised language of Old Church Slavonic, Ruthenian and Polish. Here is a screenshot https://ibb.co/qBV0H4R

I got a bit more homework for you. What is the origin of the word 'slave'? That Ukraine is being used to 'weaken' Russia is a direct extension of that. Isn't it funny how the N word is cancelled in English, while 'slave' remains? I think it's funny.






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I typed Bucharest Memorandum but I was referring to the Budapest Memorandum. The Obamawhitehouse link above shows that the US still honors the Memorandum.

I don't know about the slave word. It's important to note that Ukraine is NOT being used to weaken Russia. Russia invaded Ukraine because they are ruled by a crazy authoritarian dictator. Putin has basically been in charge of Russia for over 23 years so the guy has to go. US Presidents are at least limited to eight years. Putin was limited to eight years until his uniparty changed the Russian Constitution to allow him to rule for life.

The N word hasn't been cancelled for BIPOC. It's kind of odd/funny that the N word is constantly used in music/films/tv by BIPOC but it becomes a hate crime if whites used the word. I try to avoid using the N word since I want to avoid accidentally blurting it out. The article below covered the baseball announcer who was fired for using the N word instead of Negro, another term that some people don't like.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/oakland-s-announcer-glen-kuiper-fired-appeared-use-racial-slur-air-rcna85751

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I know you are trying, but obviously not hard enough. I'm here to help.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum#Content
who broke the memorandum first?

Haha - you don't know about the slave word? You speak English - so, surely you know what slave means. Where did the word come from? Why is it still being used in English when words with much less offensive meanings are being cancelled right and left? Simple questions.

Regarding Ukraine being used to weaken Russia - well - funny, right? ^^ Let's talk about those slaves, shall we?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBjGPEX9Omw
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/25/russia-weakedend-lloyd-austin-ukraine


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Wikipedia is NOT a reliable source since it can be edited by users. Russia violated its responsibilities under the memorandum first.

I know about the slave word but it's irrelevant to the current topic.

Adam Schiff has a big mouth and Lloyd Austin is an idiot who got the job through DEI policies. The Guardian article does detail the established administration line about helping Ukraine retain its sovereignty and defend its territory. A couple of stupid officials noted that the goal was to weaken Russia BUT the main goal is stop Russian genocide and allow Ukraine to exist as a sovereign nation.

https://www.npr.org/2023/04/24/1171632554/efforts-to-rescue-ukrainian-children-kidnapped-by-russia-are-underway

https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas

The EU sanctions against Russia are for the aggression against Ukraine and the goal of the sanctions is to compel Russia to stop its aggression against Ukraine. Russia can end the sanctions when they remove their troops and help repair the country that they destroyed. The goal is not to weaken Russia but they want Russia to end their aggression against Ukraine.

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/sanctions/restrictive-measures-against-russia-over-ukraine/sanctions-against-russia-explained/

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Yep - this is why we look at the references. https://web.archive.org/web/20140419030507/http://minsk.usembassy.gov/budapest_memorandum.html
https://politics.stackexchange.com/questions/71887/have-the-us-and-uk-explained-if-they-view-sanctions-on-belarus-as-breaching-the


Yes, indeed - let's ignore what the US government officials have said, because you are the arbiter of truth - and you say that Ukraine is not being used to weaken Russia, therefore it must be so - lol Perhaps if you held office, your word would have had more weight to it.
You want to get the top man himself say it though? https://www.npr.org/2022/03/26/1089014039/biden-says-of-putin-for-gods-sake-this-man-cannot-remain-in-power
You know what happens when you topple a regime? An immediate weakened nation. In fact, we already have an example of that in history. 1917 - when Germany orchestrated and funded the toppling of the Russian monarchy in order to weaken Russia.
https://www.dw.com/en/how-germany-got-the-russian-revolution-off-the-ground/a-41195312

And yes, the word slave is significant in this context. US is using Ukraine in precisely the way it sees the slav people - as slaves.

Oh, and I'd avoid switching to EU, because most weapons and funds are from the US - nice try though.

In conclusion: you've previously stated ' I know a lot about Ukraine and that's why I am passionate about countering the disinformation spread by Russian propagandists.'

In reality, you are spreading BS and propaganda and you have nothing to back up your claims.
Learn history - do research. Your desire to counter disinformation is indeed commendable, but you are doing it all wrong - which makes me ponder if your desire in doing that is genuine to begin with.

Have a nice day.

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I won't click on your links since they are not reliable sources. I wouldn't look at some stackexchange site or some unknown archive. I also wouldn't believe anything out of Belarus since that regime is a puppet of Putin that allowed Russian forces to launch their Ukrainian invasion from their territory.

A military will be weakened by war since both sides are bombing each other until the other side acquiesces. I could see why an official would mention this but the primary objective of the aid has been to stop Russia's military invasion of Ukraine and protect the sovereignty of Ukraine's borders. The official document below notes that the aid is designed to protect the sovereignty of Ukraine and stop the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Joe Biden has been a gaffe machine for the last fifty years but his misstatements do not always represent US foreign policy.

https://www.state.gov/u-s-security-cooperation-with-ukraine/

World War One toppled FOUR empires since the people were tired of being sent to DIE at the front. The Russian empire, German Empire, Austro-Hungarian empire and the Ottoman empire all collapsed. Germany was at war with Russia during World War One so toppling the Russian monarchy resulted in Russia's withdrawal from the war. Wagner recently held their march on Moscow and there will probably be more rebellions as this senseless invasion drags on.

https://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/era.cfm?eraid=12&smtid=1#:~:text=World%20War%20I%20destroyed%20four,in%20reform%20and%20moral%20crusades.

The word slave is totally irrelevant. The US gave Ukraine the tools to fight for their sovereignty and they are beating the Russians back. The Ukrainians chose to fight because they don't want to be a part of Russia. The US gave the Afghanis the tools to fight and they surrendered to the Taliban. The Afghanis chose NOT to fight.

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The EU is donating significant amounts of aid to Ukraine. Many countries all over the world have donated various types of aid to Ukraine and the second link below has a lot of charts. The US has donated the most in value but other countries have donated aid in a higher percentage of their GDP.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-unveil-50bln-euro-aid-package-ukraine-sources-2023-06-20/

https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts

The viewers of this thread will decide if I am a propagandist or if I am spreading lies. I'm confident that my links will enable readers to decide for themselves. I will continue to counter the disinformation promulgated by Russian propagandists.

Slava Ukraini! Putin khuylo!

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Whatever the USSR did in the past against Ukrainians when trying to govern that country after WWII has nothing to do with today. Maybe the Russians who live with this in their backyard might know more about it and have more reasonable solutions than the lying, war mongering, West, that is falling apart and is so wasteful that looks to appropriate Russian resources instead of buying and trading in the free market the West promotes so dishonestly.

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Dude just move to nazi russia if you admire it so much.

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These fellows would also defend the Korean war, Vietnam war, Germany's split after WWII, etc. Whenever a country gets fucked up at the behest of the US, which is thousands of Kilometers away, it's all good ^^

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Dude, stop reading and retelling nazi russian propaganda. Stop making fool of yourself. Its embarrassing.

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https://twitter.com/KimDotcom/status/1675512791736926209?s=20

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Max Blumenthal is not so clear or believable - listen to the speeches of Jeffrey Sachs.

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It's been a slow go of it. Not the lightning counter-offensive Biden was expecting. I think V.Z. should have taken advantage more of the situation inside Moscow and smashed the Russian frontline all over Ukraine.

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Ukraine cannot smash anything.
Do you think if they could have done that they would not have?
Ukraine destroyed its people and country for nothing, and America paid them to do it.

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cause under russian rule itd be a utopia. countries should just bow down to invading dictators and have no sovereignty.. you spineless rat.

imagine how much better France and Yugoslavia and Poland and hungary and romania and bulgaria and lithuania would have been if in 1939-1942 they put up absolutely zero resistance at all and just embraced their German invaders.

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I heard the August offensive started and they gained 3 sq miles. They are now preparing for the long winter as winter is coming.

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damn Putin ball licker

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