MovieChat Forums > Donald Trump Discussion > Don't deport us?

Don't deport us?

posted 2 months ago by Ranb (10310)
216 replies | jump to latest

U.S. farm industry groups want President-elect Donald Trump to spare their sector from his promise of mass deportations, which could upend a food supply chain heavily dependent on immigrants in the United States illegally.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-farm-groups-want-trump-spare-their-workers-deportation-2024-11-25/

Nearly half of the nation's approximately 2 million farm workers lack legal status, according to the departments of Labor and Agriculture, as well as many dairy and meatpacking workers.

Farmers have a legal option for hiring labor with the H-2A visa program, which allows employers to bring in an unlimited number of seasonal workers if they can show there are not enough U.S. workers willing, qualified and available to do the job.
The program has grown over time, with 378,000 H-2A positions certified by the Labor Department in 2023, three times more than in 2014, according to agency data.
But that figure is only about 20% of the nation's farm workers, according to the USDA. Many farmers say they cannot afford the visa's wage and housing requirements. Others have year-round labor needs that rule out the seasonal visas.

Some people I talk to feel that they are entitled to have an easy to exploit "underclass" of people who perform cheap labor for them to keep prices low. This is why they are opposed to raising the minimum wage or having any minimum wage at all.

Growing, producing, harvesting and moving food is extremely important, a living wage should be paid for all of those people who do that kind of work. Don't want to pay someone a living wage to make your food, then make it yourself, right?

Regardless of what side your on, do you want to see every illegal farm worker deported?

I think Trump will fold on deporting all illegals just like he did on prosecuting Clinton and building the wall. Does anyone think Trump will actually go through with farm worker deportations?

[–] luvthepros (814) 2 months ago

Trump hired illegal immigrants for years. Enough said.

[–] Ranb (10310) 2 months ago

Trump also allowed hundreds of thousands of illegals into the country while he was president and removed fewer than those who entered. Trump cares more about supplying cheap labor, than jobs for Americans.

[–] Narwhale37 (1286) 2 months ago

At this point, I hope everything he actually says happens. It will be the only way America learns its lesson and picks an actual adult as president next time.

[–] Ranb (10310) 2 months ago

If Trump ends the Russia-Ukraine war by siding with Russia, we might be at war with Russia before Trump is out of office. That would be an overly harsh lesson for America to learn for electing a bozo like Trump.

[–] Narwhale37 (1286) 2 months ago

It's not overly harsh as all. America was warned for years. Either you know full well what's going to happen or you're purposely being ignorant and ignoring everything and everyone trying to explain things to you.

Hope this was worth staying home over.

[–] Ranb (10310) 2 months ago

Most of the people trying to explain things to me are limiting their remarks to personal attacks are are blinded by the devotion to their cult leader.

Who here has said anything rational on the topic of Trump embracing illegal aliens and threatening to deport all of them at the same time?

[–] Aylmer (539) 2 months ago

I don't get your logic on thinking peace in Ukraine would be a bad thing. Of course to have any kind of peace, both sides will have to give up something they want. Ukraine will have to give up more than Russia because they are the weaker side and they are losing. Keeping all that in mind during a peace process is not "taking Russia's side" but just being thoroughly pragmatic.

I doubt Russia will have any reason to invade Ukraine again in the future if the borders are drawn in a way that they like (like giving them Kharkov and the whole Black Sea coast including Odessa, which may be a tall order for Ukraine at this stage, but something that Russia could inevitably impose once more of the country gets needlessly destroyed). It'll be tough to swallow for Ukraine to become a landlocked country but let's face it, Galicians and Cossacks are very different people and don't need to share the same territory.

[–] Ranb (10310) 2 months ago

I did not claim that peace in Ukraine is a bad thing. Peace in Ukraine would be a great thing. The peace should be on Ukraine's terms, they should not be required to give up any territory and should be compensated for their loses by aggressor Russia.

I think Russia will only be satisfied with a change in borders that nearly or completely eliminates Ukraine from the map.

I think Russia will have every incentive to invade anyone else in the future if they are not promptly put in their place now for their destruction of Ukraine.

Would you be singing the same tune if Russia invaded Alaska? Should the USA be expected to give up portions of Alaska because they might be in a weaker position due to the existing nearby (55 miles) Russian border that currently exists?

Who are you to decide that the Galicians and Cossacks don't need to share territory?

[–] CraigC (8481) 2 months ago

Does anybody think Homan is fuckin' around?

[–] chilidoggg (14430) a month ago

"He whose bread I eat, is whose song I sing."

[–] Aylmer (539) 2 months ago

The whole farming industry in this country is largely suffering from government meddling across the board. It's crazy how some farmers are paid NOT to grow food certain years and that the government has mass-culling of livestock when there's always a use for biomass if handled efficiently, and the free market is far more efficient than the government.

For the most part it's much more heavily automated than it used to be so also very efficient from a labor perspective. There are certain sectors very heavily reliant on cheap unskilled labor, but if you take that away, they will have the choice to either hire American-born workers and have to compete for their labor by paying more, or automating. I reckon both will happen though the only thing preventing a faster move toward automation with picking certain fruit is the fact that it's cheaper (for now) to pay some illegal immigrant to do it.

Enforcing the border will cause a momentary price shock to the system but in the end it'll be a better, more sustainable system to incentivize employers to hire Americans or also hire robots and machines (as they do) as this will open up a lot of jobs in the automation industry. It'll also take pressure off of social services like education, medical care, and especially housing and finally allow a housing crash to happen (these illegal immigrants are living in cramped conditions in shared houses which boosts the demand and keeps houses more expensive than they would otherwise be). Any system that is endlessly reliant on a perpetual slave labor underclass to fuel itself is doomed to failure.

[–] AnthonySocksss (1201) 2 months ago

The farming industry suffers from corporate meddling

No one wants to work in 90 degree heat in a field picking fruits and vegetables.

Enforcing the border won’t stop illegal immigration.

Congratulations, you wrote 3 whole paragraphs of nonsense

[–] Jinx (3813) 2 months ago

People just don't understand that these deportations and Tariffs are going to result in HUGE price increases.

[–] chilidoggg (14430) a month ago

$1.00 in 2007 costs $1.52 in 2024.

https://archive.thinkprogress.org/the-economics-of-50-lettuce-50aa9a3449c0/

John McCain has famously said that “the issue of economics is not something I’ve understood as well as I should” and in addition to being rather offensive, his “you can’t do it” rant about the problem with paying people $50 an hour to pick lettuce is a reminder of that.

$76/hr to pick lettuce in 2024?

[–] Ranb (10310) a month ago

What should the people who harvest food get paid then?

[–] chilidoggg (14430) a month ago

IIRC circa 2000 in Florida some ridiculous amount of land, like 10% of Florida, was devoted to tomato plantations just for Burger King, and workers were paid like a nickel a tomato...

[–] Ranb (10310) a month ago

Evidence to support your claims?

[–] chilidoggg (14430) a month ago

Google Florida Burger King Tomatoes. There are newspaper articles behind paywalls

This story isn't dated, but it refers to the "2003 Handbook of Employment Regulations Affecting Florida Farm Employers and Workers" which is pretty close to "circa 2000")

https://caveylaw.com/you-cant-have-it-your-way-burger-king-tomatoes-and-florida-workers/

Migrant farm workers who harvest tomatoes in South Florida work about 12 hours a day. They are not paid by the hour, but rather by production. Laborers that pick for growers that sell to Burger King receive 45 cents for every 32 pound bucket of tomatoes that they produce. Over a course of a 12 hour day, that averages to somewhere in the neighborhood of minimum wage.

"45 cents per basket had been the prevailing wage for close to thirty years"

[–] Ranb (10310) a month ago

That article talks about how the workers really got shafted. Do you agree? Would you do that work for that kind of pay?

[–] chilidoggg (14430) a month ago

I get the impression that you would agree with the statement that businesses strive their hardest to privatize the profits and socialize the losses.

[–] Ranb (10310) a month ago

Yes, good for the bottom line.

That tells me nothing about why you are being evasive or if you would work for that kind of pay. Is that kind of work and pay good enough for you?

[–] chilidoggg (14430) a month ago

Well, one of the components of "socializing the losses" would be the cost of social services like education, health care, welfare, etc. that workers being paid "starvation wages" cannot afford. The math might pencil out to show that tomatoes are a luxury good...

[–] Ranb (10310) a month ago

Are you able to buy luxury goods like tomatoes?

[–] chilidoggg (14430) a month ago

It's probably cheaper to buy tomatoes from Mexico. Are there enough Mexican tomatoes to satisfy Americans' demand? Maybe New England doesn't get tomatoes... or they pay through the nose...