If any of you had half a brain, you'd put your own prejudices and biases to one side, and intelligently and reasonably sit down with people who had different politics and beliefs to yourself, and try to reach some sort of understanding.
Instead you're all committed to bad-mouthing and demonising one another, and trying to rubbish each other's agenda.
You can't even accept one another on the basis of race or sexuality or gender, so I guess it should come as no surprise that you'll never be able to accept one another's different political beliefs.
Until any of you are able to consider my advice and sit down and try to understand one another, to hell with you all!
Have you even tried understanding, or are you just one of these people who thinks he 'understands', but actually hasn't really made the effort and simply holds anyone who thinks differently to him in contempt?
Well first it assumes the other person doesn't understand your point of view so you presume to know their mind. And it assumes understanding can lead to common ground. And it assumes that both parties are willing to compromise. Some points of view are simply selfish, based on brainwashing, or the result of a lifetime of conditioning.
When I have conversations with conservatives it goes one of two ways:
1: They regurgitate whatever dittohead nonsense is popular that week along with random slurs and anger about things that didn't happen. That's brainwashing and it's like trying to understand insanity.
2: We come to a consensus on common problems but believe in radically different solutions and very probably disagree on which problems are a priority.
Well, in my personal experience, there are many libs and cons who prefer doling out personal insults to engaging with political facts and principles. I'm a left-winger, but I see plenty of fellow lefties simply attack Trump and his supporters on an ad hominem personal level (for instance, what have the size of his hands got to do with anything?!?), just as I see plenty of lefties seize upon discredited and false narratives, as the Jussie Smollett 'assault' now appears to be (although, I will caution against making a definitive judgement until we have the full facts). You can't say it's simply conservatives who abuse, lie and insult, and it would do those of us on the left a greater service if we focused on the issues and policies rather than engaging in BS (not least because I believe that if the left were to focus primarily on the issues and policies, we would win the argument).
Anyway, my rule is that it is pointless engaging with anyone who simply resorts to personal abuse and false narratives. But if a person is sincere and argues in good faith, we should be willing to engage with, and try to understand, them, irrespective of their political beliefs.
I'm no better than anyone else. For 8 years I put up with lies and nastiness about Obama so I have no hesitation dealing it back. Dittoheads are irrelevant because they only believe what they are programmed to believe so there is no usefulness in debate.
I used to discuss and debate with local libertarian party reps and that was much more interesting.
And you have a point about liberals, or so called liberals, (really they are just Democrats). Many are just as brainwashed as dittoheads.
Trump is wretched, and I can't say I truly understand anyone who genuinely believes he is a good President. However, I do have some sympathy for a few of his 2016 supporters. Even if I don't agree with their vote, I still understand those disillusioned and disenfranchised voters who were simply fed up with their declining living standards, and what they perceived to be a remote and out-of-touch federal government. When you see successive administrations sending poor people to die in illegal and pointless overseas wars, and wealthy corporate banks being bailed out by the tax-payer in order to keep the corporate-capitalist system ticking over, you can understand why people were looking for a radical change, any change, and talking about 'America First' despite its racist implications.
But they tell us there are more genders than we can count! They tell us that we've got some "privilege" because we're white; meanwhile there are white people actually saying they identify as black to get an advantage. Folks who have multi-millions are "taking a knee" to protest oppression, and we're called bigots because we think that's laughable. We don't see the black man -- we see the rich man trying to tell us how "oppressed" he is.
I can't remember the name of the black reporter interviewing Morgan Freeman, but he got to a point where he asked a question with the air of knowing the answer: "Do you think there is still institutional racism in America?" The reporter got shocked off his arse when Freeman said, "No, and we're the proof of it." So was Obama, who tried to get as much mileage out of the concept as possible -- and all of them among the "hated" 1% they protested against! Well, except for Freeman. I can't remember hearing he hated successful people.
Go ahead and say, "To hell with you all!" Until you address that elephant in the room, you're really not facing reality. There is obviously upward mobility for black people if they want it. Like the rest of us, they have to work for it. And if they're applying in a company that wants "diversity," all things being equal, they'll get a job ahead of a white person...unless a Muslim or an Hispanic is just as qualified. Then they'll likely get edged out. And one of these days they realize this identity politics so many of the politicians and SJWs have been working has screwed them over.
"But they tell us there are more genders than we can count!"
Well, if you have a problem counting, that's really your cross to bear. But seriously, what difference does it make to you what gender a person identifies as? Does it truly impact your life?
"They tell us that we've got some "privilege" because we're white"
As a white person you're more likely to be in employment, more likely to have a college education, less likely to be in prison, less likely to be shot by the police, and less likely to be the victim of a hate crime.
"meanwhile there are white people actually saying they identify as black to get an advantage."
Whose fault is that? Certainly not black people.
My take is that there are white people identifying as black simply because it's 'hip' to do so. Even though I'm a left-wing progressive, as you've probably guessed, that doesn't mean I have time for all liberals or left-wing people. Many of them are a-holes, especially the white libs who claim black and ethnic minority ancestry, or even identity, in order to show that they 'feel' the pain of (genuine) people of colour. Elizabeth Warren with her less than 6% probable Native American DNA is an example of what I'm talking about. As it happens, she did not gain a tangible professional advantage at Harvard in claiming she was Native American, as some have claimed but what she has done is seek to make herself seem more 'exotic' or more in-touch with POC, by claiming such an ethnic identity contrary to the miniscule (at best) Native American DNA she actually possesses (and that's one of the reasons I hope she does not win the Democratic Party 2020 nomination despite my overall support for much of her political agenda).
"Folks who have multi-millions are "taking a knee" to protest oppression, and we're called bigots because we think that's laughable. We don't see the black man -- we see the rich man trying to tell us how "oppressed" he is."
Once again, what difference does it make to you? Does Colin Kaepernick 'taking the knee' affect you on any intrinsic level?
And whilst it may indeed be true to say that Kaepernick is (now) a multi-millionaire who does not really suffer any socioeconomic privilege, bear in mind that whether you support his protest or not, he was not necessarily kneeling to the US Anthem for himself, per se, but for the numerous African Americans, mostly men, the majority of whom are much less well-off than Kaepernick, who have been on the receiving end of police brutality, and, in many cases, have died at the hands of law officers, supported by the state and funded by, among others, Kaepernick's tax dollars.
"There is obviously upward mobility for black people if they want it. Like the rest of us, they have to work for it."
It isn't even that easy for the vast majority of white people, let alone black people who have to deal with the added burden of systemic racism, including negative stereotypes. Social mobility has been on the decline since the 1980s (that's why living standards have fallen - one of the reasons, I was led to believe, that led to Trump's election).
Yes, there are wealthy black people, and, yes, it does take hard work and perseverance to get anywhere in life, but there are also far fewer professional opportunities if you're black and/or poor than there are if you're rich and white.
Perhaps instead of resenting POC, you could see the problems faced by them as the sharp end of the overall rot at the core of society, and a system that lets down the vast majority of its citizens, black, white, male, female, and so on.
When trannies travel the country visiting classrooms trying to indoctrinate our kids yes it certainly impacts our life and contrary to popular belief here in America they hand out jobs like candy to women, blacks, muslims. Pretty much anybody who isn't a white man can go get a job anywhere at anytime. If a white european came to America right now and took a job anywhere that didn't require a special skill they would be one of the only white people there. So mind your own business and worry about your own country because i promise you whatever country you are from we could care less
You are talking out of inchoate prejudice and confused rage, rather than relying on any concrete facts to support your argument.
I feel sorry for you. It can't be healthy to be consumed by such bigotry, especially when it gets in the way of you actually understanding, and thus being able to do anything about, the reasons for your, clearly unhappy, circumstances.
Your fall-back position seems to be that unless something affects someone directly, they should have no opinion on it.
Wait. You just used the word "whilst," which isn't in common usage in America. In fact, it's so rare it sounds silly or pretentious when an American uses it. Of course although you can say you come from anywhere and we can't prove you're not, my wild guess is that you don't a have a dog in this fight at all since you're not from America. Americans don't use "whilst," we say, "And while it may indeed be true to say...."
Golly, how does anything that happens in America affect the people of England or the former Empire, who are the only ones who say "whilst"? And *whilst* you're in another country, what makes you think you're an expert on our life and politics? I'm not going to tell a woman from Moose Jaw what Canadians think, or some fellow from Walthamstow what folks in England think.
I don't resent everyone but Caucasians. I resent identity politics driving a wedge between everyone in America. I hate it when Trump works it and I hated it when Obama worked it. I really hate it when somebody uses it who throws "whilst" into a post when he's trying to pretend to have experienced what life is like in America for any extended period of time.
BTW, I have a friend from Iran -- came here legally -- who's more American than a lot of Americans who were born here. He worked hard, he became successful and his children are successful. Why? Strong family unit and a strong emphasis on education and work ethic. None of that costs anything but hard work here in America, which is a good thing, since he came here without a dime. Saying others can't achieve the same because of their ethnicity is treating them like backward children. Just stop.
Okay. It's my problem counting. So how many genders are there. Please list and define. Don't leave any out, or someone can come at you and scream, "Bigot! Discrimination!"
You tell all that stuff to Ben Carson or Morgan Freeman. Heck, I remember when Jessie Jackson admitted that he froze up when a group of young black men would get on an elevator and he'd be the only other guy in there. James Baldwin, talking about black on black crime, said the unspoken truth was that blacks had internalized the idea that it was okay to kill another black person. I don't know if that's actually the reason more blacks are actually shot by other blacks, but it was Baldwin's belief. And he grew up in Harlem back when education was valued as a way out of the slums.
Probably the worst thing to happen to the black community was the destruction of the family unit. Now daddy sticking around is optional, so they actually start thinking of gang members as being male role models.
I'm not saying that it's black people's fault that there are people who want to identify as black because it's now a cool image and in some cases, a good con. Go back to the Civil Rights era, and you didn't find anyone wanting to pass as black except for that guy who wrote "Black Like Me." If you can become President of the United States as a black man, that "institutional racism" is as dead as Morgan Freeman said it was. Warren got a job somewhere writing "Native American" on the employment form, and when she and I were young, being a minority was actually a leg up in many companies and law firms who wanted to show they were sensitive to diversity.
Admitting that it's "hip" to be black makes my point, although you can't see it. It's hip to be less likely to be employed or have a college education, and more likely to be in prison, shot by the police, or a victim of hate crime? If those things were constant real fears of the black community, why would anyone want to risk them?
Don't listen to Rush since he became a mindless MAGA guy. He's lost all of his conservative principles in order to make money catering to people who think a big government liberal is actually a conservative. Rush will admit that Trump's no conservative, but that doesn't stop him from promoting the heck out of his big government policies.
No, most of these people are idiots because until he said he was running for President everyone liked him and he was popular and considered a rich celebrity.
The minute he dropped his hat in the ring to run everyone did a complete 180.
I never liked him, but you're 100% right; a lot of people, particularly celebrities, were cosying up to the man, until he finally decided to run for President (even though he'd long threatened to do so). I guess it was only cool to hang out with an openly racist and misogynist a-hole when he was merely a TV game show host/property mogul with vast political influence, rather than an actual politician.
You're obviously, CaptainObvious, much younger than I am. Trump was considered a national joke for much of his life. He was a pathetic self-promoter. He was known derisively as "The Donald," from what his first wife called him. He was so stuck on himself, so socially awkward, that the name fit him perfectly. He was always showing up in movies or with starlets on his arm. He was that rich kid in school that never seemed to quite understand that he was obnoxious.
No, for much of his life, he was laughed at. But in politics, being a tireless self-promoter and con man is a plus. He finally found his niche.
Maybe you should practice what you preach cupcake? These are all quotes from you pumpkin', just over the last couple days. Yeah, you seem to be really level headed,lol.
"What was this bunch of spoiled white all-male prep school brats doing at a pro-life rally?"..."Smug smiling a-holes. No doubt they'll turn out to be beer-bashing sex-pests like their hero Justice Kavanaugh."
"Of course the hat [MAGA hats] is a symbol of hate. It's a symbol of "Get that Muslim non-American 'n-word' out of the White House, and put a good ol' boy in there to roll back the clock to the 1950s"."
"Trump really seems to bring out the worst in people." [Regarding the Jussie Smollett hate crime hoaxes]
you'd put your own prejudices and biases to one side, and intelligently and reasonably sit down with people who had different politics and beliefs to yourself, and try to reach some sort of understanding
When a leftwing lemming tries to sound reasonable by implying we all need to come together and understand each other whilst telling us they hate Trump, Orange man bad, hate Rush, hate conservatives, justifies leftwing racism and hate, and is nothing more than the close minded cliche they supposedly disapprove of.
It certainly was a cute attempt. What you fail to understand is those of us educated in politics know what you’ll say and who you are before you even say it. We do understand you, and we do understand the cancer that is the modern left, and the democrat party. I knew who you were before you finished your 1st paragraph.
In the interest of further self embarrassment, come back in a decade when you’re more educated and possess a better understanding of your own ignorance. Glad we could understand each other better my chap.
I've made several posts criticising liberals. I just made a thread criticising Ellen Page, for instance, over her stupid statement regarding Mike Pence (a man I admittedly loathe) supposedly being at blame for Jussie Smollett's (non) assault.
I don't attack people for being liberals. I don't attack people for being conservatives. I attack people for being idiots and/or liars.
You can't attack my sense of reason and fairness. It is completely unimpeachable.