If you had your choice and could do a re-vote, would you vote for Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump for president?
shareI originally voted for Donald Trump, and just after having seen what he's done so far, I would vote for him twice. Even if it meant creating a new ID.
shareI've followed Trump's life and career since the 80s. His presidency is everything I expected. Some folks might be surprised but this is who he's always been.
shareI would vote for HRC again. Having a woman as Prez would be a big step forward, and having this narcissist, groper-in-chief wouldn't be such an embarrassment. I can't believe this idiot is in charge. It's embarrassing.
shareOh fuck that. Your gonna vote for her just cause she has a vagina. Fuck that.
shareI can't believe you just ignored snepts61 stating that Trump is a "narcissist, groper-in-chief, an embarrassment and an idiot." which are obviously the main reasons why he/she supports Clinton.
Trump is campaigning for a degenerate who tried to rape under age girls. Even prisoners hate child abusers, but Trump supports them. Amazing!
I predict if Moore wins, other states will boycott doing business with Alabama until he's removed. That state will lose a ton of money.
your right all I saw in this post was "We need a woman, cause otherwise were not stepping forward."
"Trump is campaigning for a degenerate who tried to rape under age girls. "
See when you say crazy shit like that I just don't believe you. Trumps an ass but he's no rapiest. Are you confusing him with Roy Moor?
"Trumps an ass but he's no rapiest."
In 1994, Trump went to a party with Jeff Epstein, a registered sex offender. He and Trump raped a 13 year old girl and it was collaborated by a witness. Trump threatened the girl if she said anything. Years later she sued, but dropped it after numerous threats in 2016.
Ex-wife Ivana accused him of raping her in 1989 in a court deposition during divorce proceedings.
Jill Harth, a former business associate said in a 1997 lawsuit that he attempted to rape her and groped her on numerous occasions.
5 1997 Miss Teen USA girls, 16-19 years old, said he walked in on them as they changed. Trump admitted it on the Howard Stern Show. Trump said, "You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody okay?’ And you see these incredible-looking women, and so, I sort of get away with things like that.”
At least 16 women have come forward to accuse Trump of sexual harassment and sexual assault.
"...a big step forward..."
I interpreted it to mean that our society can finally see past gender in electing a president. Not too long ago, all women were expected to be housewives.
"I interpreted it to mean that our society can finally see past gender in electing a president."
The rest of america can clearly see that gender is all these libtards can see as they were pretty much advocating voting for the devil on the sole basis that she's a woman.
2016 was a choice between a rich cry baby and the devil. In 2020 put some one other then hillary up there so we can sit out the election guilt free.
I'm assuming that you would never vote for any Democrat since you use the term "libtards".
"...so we can sit out the election guilt free."
It's all about mass manipulation. Conservative media will find whoever the next Democratic presidential nominee to be the new "devil" and if he/she is voted into power than the world will end! They create melodrama because people tune-in therefore they make more money, not caring about the consequences. Remember Pizzagate? Conservatives will feel compelled to vote for Trump to save to the world from doom again, if he isn't in prison.
You're ignoring that I just gave you examples of Trump's violent behavior towards girls/women. He's vile.
I'm assuming that you would never vote for any Democrat since you use the term "libtards".
I noticed that the Republican Party has come under attack by extremists like Bannon and Trumpism. Bannon wants to rid the party of Republicans and replace them with his own alt-Right candidates. In a sense, Republican politicians created their own problem by remaining silent when Trump was attracting extremists.
Rush Limbaugh is a hypocrite. He used to be a conservative, but now attacks them because Trumpism makes him more money. Same with Fox and other "conservative" media.
The minute Republicans speak out publicly against Trump or his policies, they get death threats. That's not democracy.
I believe Trump is a populist, not a conservative. I predict that he'll be impeached by 2018 after Democrats win more control. (They're angrier now.) Republican politicians don't like him either, so they won't help him. We're near the end of the business cycle and stock market bull, so his popularity will decline more when people lose their jobs and 401Ks. Not to mention many of his policies are going to screw over his own base.
"So who else is their left for me to vote for."
Power lies with the people to stop allowing themselves to be pushed around by crooked politicians and greedy corporations. I notice people in other countries fight more for their rights.
MY claims? Nope. The pervert's own words on the Howard Stern show:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIvFHFboWEU
I agree I was very suprised that rush limbaugh was on the take back in december 2015 backing trump. It was odd that he chose to back a candidate that was a democrat all his life up untill 4 years prior, yet trashed other republican moderates, I really think rush was on trumps paycheck like shean hannity as well. Glenn bech and daina lesch were the only ones I can think of that didn't back trump. Fox news initially didn't like trump but something changed that caused them to endorse him late in the primaries. I agree with your points on trump. I'm hoping for impeachment as the easier way out for america. Trump's ego is so big that it isn't a tretch to thing that he will break the law and pompously think he's so powerful he'll get away with it. I've seen this behavior in other criminals fall in the justice system due to that thinking. They start thinking they have enough money they can buy super lawyers that can get them off at the slightest technicality with out realizing prosecutors are going to counter with their own legal tricks when facing a criminal that expects to hide behind the law with their brazene acts.
Trump said he couldgo into the back stage but never said he raped anyone, and the females only said they were uncomfterbal.
Your appetite for proof is insatiable to the point where I coulden't even convince you that donald trump(who I already said I didn't like) is still better then a murderous tyrant like kim jong un who murdered members of his family that put him in power. Your response is that kim was just not going to be pushed around so he was justified in his actions. Yes you tried to say trump was worse then that guy so no... You've lost so much credability with me that I'v pretty much started ignoring your more outrgoous claims. Whats worse is when you started refuting your own claims while pretending I was the one that made them. It almost felt like I was talking to two differen't people. You don't get to play that game with me any more. I wasted to much time already showering you with fair and valid logic only for you to come back micro counter example to one of my claims conclucding that they are of greater weight then the mountain of evidence I gave you. Example
ME: Kim jung un starves his own people and is why his population is so poor as he deverts all his money to the military
You: Famine was caused by massive flooding and the cause why the DPRK is so poor. Kim jung is doing every thing he can to feed his people. Donald trump won't even help the people of Puerto rico so your a hypocrite for backing trump.
All the while I repeatedly declared I don't support trump. This is my evidence to show you why I'm just not gonna play your games any more.
I'm reading a book that mentions what happened to Limbaugh. It says a huge boycott by advertisers in 2012 caused his show to suffer financially. He also lost stations and most advertisers never returned.
Meanwhile, the most loyal conservative audiences became more extreme so there were media personalities trying to appeal to them by being as extreme/outrageous themselves. There's more money in being a Trump supporter and populist than being a Republican.
If moderate Republicans regain favor in the future, then expect Limbaugh to become Republican again.
Trump admitted to going back stage while girls/women were undressing which makes him a pervert.
Regarding Kim Jung Un. I think the thread had to do with the OP saying to nuke North Korea.
The Iraq War and the subsequent consequences should've discouraged this type of thinking. Nation-building is a disaster.
I don't think you want to defend Trump anymore than I want to defend Jong-Un. The main point I was trying to make was that I felt you were leaving out history and oversimplifying the situation. No person or country exists in a vacuum.
For instance, nation building in Iraq was a disaster. The ignorance about old rivalries between Sunnis and Shiites lead to years of violence.
"Your appetite for proof is insatiable"
As opposed to blindly following a questionable source or person? Senator Moynihan quote, "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts."
Trump has trained his followers to believe his lies by discrediting negative information about him as "fake news" and believing propaganda sites like Breitbart which supports him.
Remember, when many Trump supporters were against Obamacare and wanted it to end? Then, they were informed that the Affordable Care Act was Obamacare and they were on it which made them change their minds. Their original opposition tells me they were blindly repeating something and not educating themselves to find the truth.
"Regarding Kim Jung Un. I think the thread had to do with the OP saying to nuke North Korea."
I actually started the thread with the declaration that Kim jung should be killed off under the table while china other nations being left to influence the next government since its clear they woulden't want us occupying the state. I know its not a good idea to let china build a new government but any government has a higher probability of being better then the last. Kim jung doesn't carte about his people. while China does(Although they of course pacify the public uprising and silence desenters they at least ensure their population is fed).
Trump isn't really convincing any one with the fake news claim. Sure we all recognize the media outlets are pretty liberal we don't go as far as calling them fake news. Fake news is on face book not TV.
With iraq its like I said. Muslims only really respect the sword which saddam continusly used to maintain control of Iraq. When he was deposed it was pretty obvious tribal fueds were gonna break out. You are correct the pentagon that was solely listning to Iraqi exiles (Who were clearly just interested in removing saddam so they could fight for their own power) were pulling aruse on the pentagon claiming that the iraqi public will just love us. This is what led rumsfeild to totally be unprepared for he war. I also find it disgusting that Al Saddir was aloud to kill american troops then call for a ceasfire that the pentagon accepted over and over and over allowing him to regroup then reattack. This is what I mean when I say wars should be faught to be won. Not to be faught with games were maintaining a balance leads to countless needless deaths of American soldiers. That was the failure of veitnam.
Trump sucks. Half of conservatists agree. Whats his aproval rating at by now 36%?
Trump is too stupid too handle North Korea. Just leave him to his phone and twitter account so he doesn't start WW3.
North Koreans should determine their own future instead of a foreign government. BTW, that's exactly how the Vietnam War started by denying their independence from French colonialism.
The North Koreans inherited Jong-Un. Americans stupidly voted in its maniac.
Now the turd is denying that the CBS Access tape with him saying "he grabs women's p****y" is real. I bet that's news to Billy Bush who was fired because of it.
"Trump isn't really convincing any one with the fake news claim."
There are people who have allowed themselves to be manipulated by him because he makes them feel good or something.
The Pentagon couldn't care less about Iraqi exiles. The real reason for the war was oil.
"North Koreans should determine their own future instead of a foreign government. "
I would agree and wish the North Koreans would determine their next for m of governmet but the North Korean population will just be overun by chinese influence or the former DPRK. The North population will never be incharge of their own destiny as they don't have the resources to stand up to what ever power forms in the vacum.
"Americans stupidly voted in its maniac." Americans where fucked regardless of who they voted for this time around. This is the worst pair of candidates I can remember and I'm a little over 40. Sometimes representative democracies suffer in this way. Its worse in other countries that have like 5 or 6 parties that like wise split the vote. In effect no candidate in those countries has a majority of the population vote and I really think thats what happened here. Most of peoples votes where against the other candidate, whille acknowledging their candidate sucked. I really feel like there
"Trump isn't really convincing any one with the fake news claim."
I think trump actually believes his own reteric. Look at him now. He's been trying to be Time magazines man of the year since for ever but now he's claiming he turned it down when he knows he's not gonna be man of the year. Even when he thought he was gonna loose the election he just claimed it was rigged and unfair(IE he was gonna claim he really won even when he lost). We all know he woulden't conceed the election if hillary won, he was gonna bitch and moan about fraud and election rigging. He kind still did when discussing the popular vote.
"The Pentagon couldn't care less about Iraqi exiles. The real reason for the war was oil."
Sure oil was the main driver for the war but the pentagon made a lot of intel mistakes by putting all their faith in the iraqi exiles who deliberatly lead the pentagon to believe the war was gonna be a cake walk, which triggered rumsfeild to wage a half assed war.
It would probably make more sense for a reunification of North Korea and South Korea like Germany had. But don't hold your breath.
"This is the worst pair of candidates I can remember"
Pair? I thought ALL the candidates were bad - some much worst than others. The problem is that politicians represent corporations, not the people. That's what happens when we allow corporations to give them money aka: bribes. Generally Democrats represent people a little more than Republicans though. Clinton wouldn't be trying to destroy the internet like Trump is doing now. The public needs to fight against policies that are hurting them like lobbying, monopolies, etc.
"Its worse in other countries that have like 5 or 6 parties that like wise split the vote."
Not really. I followed the French election very closely. France had multiple candidates from different parties and gave them all equal time during the TV debates. A few were just regular folks running - not political insiders or rich people. It's illegal for businesses to give money to candidates so no bribes. They have runoffs within their parties and then the general elections until there are only two candidates left. The new president always has over 50% of the vote unlike us.
In their last election, the two main parties lost. President Macron didn't even have a party and he won. He had to put one together after winning.
Trump's not stable. But, he's also manipulative. He's trying to get his base to distrust the intelligence agencies, the investigators of the Russian scandal, mainstream news, etc. so that they'll fight for him if he's removed. I'm not sure how influential he is since his candidate Strange lost in Alabama, though.
"It would probably make more sense for a reunification of North Korea and South Korea like Germany had. But don't hold your breath." Unless the south anexed the north I don't see it happening. Also North Korea would put a lot of economic strain on the overly developed soth.
"Pair? I thought ALL the candidates were bad "
I'm regerring to the general election.
"Not really. I followed the French election very closely. France had multiple candidates from different parties and gave them all equal time during the TV debates."
I'm reffering to countries that have 5 or more parties meaning the vote is so fragmented that the winner never has majority support (> 50%).
Also in other countries like isreal I don't fully understand how but if one party wins the loosers can still hold their seats in the senate or what ever their called and pool their votes together against the winner. I'll look into it more but it made sense when I first read that theirs usually a big negotiation between the parties after the election to see who's gonna team up with who in the senate/chamber/what ever its called.
"Trump's not stable. But, he's also manipulative" Trumps not too manipulative beyond bullying his cabinet ministers and beating them into submission. Puttin seems manipulative and does play trump like a little puppet.
As far as his influence I see a lot of GOP senators/representatives either throwing in their cards and not running or trying to distance themselves from trump as he's so unpopular as they run for reelection in 2018. Its like what happened with Obama back in 2014 every one tried to distance them selves from obama and then obama ran over them with a bus by declaring "I'm not on the ballot but my policies are" and then poof the house and senate flipped.
I meant if North Korea ever became a democracy. They have undeveloped mines so that could help them economically.
France has multiple parties. The minor ones have an opportunity to actually win which is what happened in the last election.
I know zip about Israel politics. A quick google says there are 2 main parties. To get a majority, a party will form a coalition with smaller parties which allows a voice to smaller parties and passage of legislation they may want. It doesn't sound as dopey as our system which allows the loser to become president.
Trump has a strong need to be liked. He appears to say what his base wants to hear in order to get their admiration to help feed his ego at his ego-building rallies.
An attorney told me he uses deflection a lot. He creates a controversy in order to take attention from something else he's doing. He's been doing things quietly that in the long run will hurt the country, but the press is too busy focusing on his tweets.
Both candidates were despised. Trump's biographer said today that two White House insiders were concerned about Trump's mental health and have been trying to get advice. It would be interesting if he has to be removed because he's lost his mind.
I know zip about Israel politics. A quick google says there are 2 main parties. To get a majority, a party will form a coalition with smaller parties which allows a voice to smaller parties and passage of legislation they may want. It doesn't sound as dopey as our system which allows the loser to become president.
"The parties can align them selves to overtune the winner."
They don't get that chance. The majority party gets to form a coalition first with the minor parties. Only if they fail, then the second largest party is given a chance to form a coalition. The majority party is going to form a coalition with like-minded minor parties.
"what if loosing candidates could give their delegates to another candidate."
Do you really want losing political candidates to decide who the presidential candidate is?
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-the-republican-field-dwindled-from-17-to-donald-trump/
Didn't they just run out of money?
The Democratic super delegates is undemocratic. Ditch it and the Electoral College which is antiquated and was only a faulty compromise around the slavery issue centuries ago.
Make it illegal for candidates to receive money from corporations - only people and with an upper limit. Put an upper limit to campaign spending. Automatically register people to vote when they turn 18. Outlaw financial lobbying aka bribes.
Trump could claim that he achieved all his campaign promises and resign early. His dopey supporters would believe him.
2018 is going to be a bad year for him when the Republicans lose power.
I really don't think trump wanted to be president. All the events laid out gave him an advantage he wasn't even expecting. It is one of america's truely great WTF moments. :(
shareIn an old interview, Trump said he would find running for president interesting, but being the president boring and wouldn't be interested in that.
At times he appeared to be trying to sabotage his own chances.
I wasn't surprised and had warned a few people he could win.
There's another layer to his presidency. Putin wanted him to win. I'm convinced he has something on Trump.
According to liberals you can just change your gender by saying that you are a woman so why does it matter what gender Hillary was born as?
share I never made either of those claims nor do I agree with them. I dread the day the liberals demand a transgender be ellected president cause other wise "were not moving forward".
Liberals only care about identity politics. The color of your skins and your reproductive organs are more important to them than the content of your character.
shareIts not a step forward if you vote for a person based on their gender its a step back, its still sexism its just the other way. Neither candidate was an ideal choice. Clinton really presented nothing that was inspiring, or any plan that would improve the country. Trump, well he was Trump, the same guy most people were fine with until he chose to run for President as a republican.
shareI never really payed attention to him before the election but really though he was taking some pretty hypocritical cheap shots during the primaries.
shareWhy does the candidate's gender matter? Isn't that inherently sexist?
shareI'm sorry but I'd vote for trump. We just got screwed this election.
share"yea He's more like a 6 year old with a bigger vocabulary. You think his brain deterioration caused by old age?"
Why?
His behavior reeks of dementia. We've seen a little bit of memory loss when he twice forgot to sign a bill and was actually wondering off somewhere before signing the bill.
share"I'm sorry but I'd vote for trump."
I should clarify. Unless it's a typo, I was wondering why you would vote for someone with dementia?
President Trump has been doing a great job despite crybaby loser Democrats constantly trying to undermine him and destroy his presidency. Hands down the greatest president since Ronald Reagan.
shareWas this a trick question? lol Would I vote for Trump or a lying, self serving sociopath like Hillary? Duh... such a tough choice. hahaha
"Someone with dementia"?? That sounds to me like most of Hillary's constituents!! WHY else would you vote for a Saul Alinsky Communist who tried to destroy the women her husband boinked??
Dementia or retardation...what else??
That and she abandoned 4 people to die so that the upcoming election would go her way. Make no mistake she would sell you and your family down the river for political reasons.
shareKeelai don't take this the wrong way but considering your past methods of arguments I've already decided its not useful to engage in rational debate with you considering your repeated persistent use of logical fallacies and bizarre arrival at conclusions as well as tin foil hat logic.
shareI wasn't trying to argue with you.
You had wrote that Trump had dementia and behaved like a 6 year old. But, then later you wrote that you would vote for him. It seemed like a contradiction which is why I wondered if there was a typo or did you just prefer him to the alternative. I was honestly trying to ask a simple question.
Do I vote for the crazy old man or the Devil. It was a tough choice believe me I wanted to sit this one out. I feel for the democrats I just wish they had went with another candidate. I was omaba fatigued and wanted a real GOP to counter the obama damage that took place the last 8 years. When trump stole the election I was just gonna sit out the election but then Hillary stole the democratic primaries (I say stole cause some how she won all 6 coin tosses during tie breakers which only has a 1 in 64 chance of being lagite combined with all super deligates which gave gher 15% of the delegates for free). Her extreme machiavellian methods to me make her the devil forced me to vote for trump. I don't want trump in he whitehouse in 2020 but if hillary steals the democratic primaries again I'm voting for trump. If only a likable Democratic could run in 2020. Hell I'll settle for any canidate thats less evil then hillary as far as I'm concerned any one other then hillary is better then trump. We all got screwed in 2016 lets not get screwed again in 2020.
shareI wish the world would give the other candidates a chance for once it's always democrat or republicans. I'd be interested to how things would have been if Ron Paul had been giving the chance. Other than that I'd like to seen what Bernie would have done.
I'm moderate/left-leaning but I can't stand HRC and I'd just wanna die if they make me do this again.
share