If the same exact scenario played out but it was Mel Gibson who shot the cinematographer you'd be going on and on about how he needs to be charged.
shareI don't think much of Mel, but I don't think he's stupid enough to not check the gun and the ammo. He's handled guns for real and has respect for them.
shareANYONE who kills somebody through negligence needs to be charged. People had walked off the set because it was dangerous. Baldwin holds a gun on a set he should know full well isn't safe, and he's not going to check the gun? And him one of the producers?
Then he lies and says he didn't pull the trigger on a gun that requires you to pull the trigger for it to shoot?
Maybe it ought to be a requirement for everyone who handles guns to get a course from the NRA before shooting begins. You know, just so they'll know how the guns work. π
Maybe it ought to be a requirement for everyone who handles guns to get a course from the NRA before shooting begins. You know, just so they'll know how the guns work.
I think it's a matter of cost. The blanks they use give them that muzzle flash. Of course they could add that digitally, but that costs. The fact that there are so few tragedies like this shows that CGI is unneeded on properly run sets where the man with the gun acts responsibly.
In this case, Baldwin should have checked the gun to see they were all blanks. Every person in the chain of custody should check, and Baldwin, as producer and the last one to handle the gun, should have checked. When confronted with a quote from George Clooney that he, Clooney, always checked each gun before a take, Baldwin snarled, "Well, good for him!" But actually, it's obviously rare to find people as negligent as Baldwin, or there would be a lot more tragedies like the one that occurred on his set. Baldwin was grossly negligent and he should pay for that.
Nah, the armorer and prop master are the ones responsible for checking the gun. And muzzle flashes added by CGI is probably very low on the financial ladder. It's not like a superhero film with huge explosions and buildings crumbling and things like that. That's the kind of CGI that costs a lot. Muzzle flashes and smoke? Nah.
shareEveryone who handles the gun is responsible for it. The last person to handle it is the one who has to fire it. I know someone who had to do a few scenes with guns and owns a few herself. If she was going to point a gun at someone and pull the trigger -- which Baldwin did, whether he wants to admit it or not -- then she would make VERY certain that the rounds in the gun were blanks. Blanks look different, she told me, and it's easy to tell if the gun is loaded with blanks.
Most people would feel bad about being responsible for pulling the trigger and killing someone. My guess is a textbook narcissist like Baldwin sleeps like a baby. And he would agree with you that it was anyone's fault but his.
You know those items you buy from Amazon or wherever that have the note in the box telling you that you're the final inspector of the product? Well, it's exactly like that. You don't just take someone's word that everything's okay, especially if someone could get killed if those other people -- who aren't pulling the trigger, but are telling you it's a cold gun -- are wrong.
Have you been keeping tabs on how Baldwin was cutting corners on this movie? No, precious wasn't going to pay for realistic added muzzle flashes from some CGI company. Do you know how much realistic muzzle flashes and smoke costs added in post-production? No, you don't. You're guessing it must be cheap. And even if it were, Baldwin wasn't going to pay for it. He wasn't going to pay for a competent armorer even after people started walking off the set because that armorer had made it unsafe.
Yeah, nah. That's what the armorer and the prop master gets paid for. And the scene called for him to point the gun at the camera that was what the scene was about. And that's exactly what is shown in the scene that was shot of Alec Baldwin drawing his gun and pointing it towards the camera. Whether the actual shooting was caught on camera, that's to be seen. And in the few days and after it happened, plus in the pictures you saw on set he was very upset. I'm sure he's haunted by it. No matter how huge of an asshole he is. He was charged because of the hatred for him. The hatred that he brought on himself by being such a huge asshole for practically his entire public career. And seems there are 6 producers for the movie, not just Alec. I forgot who got charged for Brandon Lee's accidental shooting? The actor who was directed to point the gun towards Brandon and pull the trigger? The director? The armorer? The prop master? The producer? Oh yeah that's right, nobody was. Because nobody was hated enough for that. The case was settled civilly. Just like this one was.
shareYou have your mind made up, but he was charged because of negligence. He was a producer on a set where he did nothing to improve the safety that practically everyone was complaining about, just to cut corners. The same gun had had a "misfire." He should have checked the gun.
Yes, he had some stills where he looked visibly upset. Was he acting? Somehow he managed to tick off Halyna Hutchins' husband to the point he sued Baldwin, despite Baldwin's insistence that he was good friends with him and Halyna and that's why he, Baldwin, was all tore up from the "accident."
There are many differences between the Brandon Lee shooting and this one. I know you're an expert on everything, but cases are tried individually. People are charged individually. All the things I mentioned in the first paragraph have a bearing on the case.
And if you would take a gun from someone who'd failed to keep the set safe, who'd basically scared a lot of crew off the set with their irresponsible behavior, and -- no questions asked -- point the gun at the cinematographer and pull the trigger, then that says a lot about you. That Baldwin, a producer on the film, would do it, says enough to have him charged.
I'm done. If you're not, have the last word.
There are many differences between the Brandon Lee shooting and this one.
Not him, but here's an obvious difference:
The shot that killed Brandon Lee was supposed to be fired, at that time, because the movie called for it. The negligence was in the ammunition (which were blanks btw).
The shot that killed Halyna Hutchins was not supposed to be fired.
The negligence is because he pulled the trigger.
The idea that Baldwin shouldn't be held responsible for a trigger that he pulled when he was not supposed to pull it is totally ignorant.
That is a fair assessment. I remember very well when Brandon Lee was shot and the circumstances behind it. Of course, that instance had no armorer on set (for financial reasons) to ensure safety, which is more negligent than the Baldwin situation.
shareYeah, it's been a while for me but as I recall, the Lee shooting was due to multiple instances of negligence (like how the ammo was constructed, for instance). I'm sure that they could have prosecuted someone. But ultimately, I think they didn't because it was just a mess all around.
Here, even if it's arguably less negligent, it all comes down to: why did he even pull the trigger? Regardless of the live ammo, and the armorer's responsibility, that just wasn't okay. I think Baldwin even claimed that he didn't pull the trigger, which is of course, absurd.
Yes, he's claiming he didn't pull the trigger. Well, he was claiming it. I have no idea what he'll say under oath. I also heard that that revolver doesn't have a hair trigger, either.
The armorer is ONE of the people responsible for that gun. A friend of mine had to use revolvers in a Western series she was in. The last person to get that gun, of course, is the actor. "I'd have to be the one to live with myself if I shot someone, so I'd always check the gun myself. It's easy to tell the difference between blanks and real bullets."
There are people around here who think they'd quite confidently take the word of an armorer or prop man/woman. But I think when it came right down to it, it would dawn on them that they're the ones who have to live with themselves once the trigger's pulled.
That is what people, including Baldwin, have a brain for. Don't point a gun at someone and pull the trigger. Just one of those basic gun safety rules he ignored.
I'm fairly certain Baldwin was charged because he pointed a gun at someone, pulled the trigger, and killed them.
Just because we are too corrupt to hold everyone responsible when they shoot some to death, does not mean we should let some people get away with it.
I'm fairly certain Baldwin was charged because he pointed a gun at someone, pulled the trigger, and killed them.
Yes he did. Does this somehow excuse what Baldwin did? Is the failure to hold Masse accountable for Lee's death a good reason for not making Baldwin accept responsibility for his actions?
Attitudes change over the years. 30 years ago someone decided that the number of errors that lead to Lee's death meant the person who pulled the trigger would not be charged. It is about time we held shooters responsible for their actions.
Baldwin is most likely going to find out it is not too late to make a change for the better.
As I've already stated, Alec is being charged because of the utter hatred for him. The hatred that he himself accrued because of his assholeness that he has showered upon the public. Brandon Lee's case was settled civilly. Just like this one already was.
shareNot that you care about facts, but Brandon's gun was filled with blanks not live ammo.
https://www.npr.org/2023/01/20/1150034900/brandon-lee-killed-prop-gun-rust-shooting-death-alec-baldwin-halyna-hutchins
Yeah. Because Alec loaded real bullets into the gun. ππ
shareBaldwin should not have pointed the gun at someone then pulled the trigger. Simple gun safety rule he violated.
shareNeither should have Michael Massee. Oh but that's different though. Yeah, it's different because nobody on The Crow set was hated the way Alec is. π€·ββοΈπ€·ββοΈπ€·ββοΈπ€·ββοΈ
shareSo 30 years has not changed anything either? How long should it take to hold shooters responsible for their actions?
Should we wait at least 31 years after the last time Baldwin shoots and kills someone so that we do not offend you?
The armorer and the propmaster are the ones that should be held responsible. Because ultimately, they are the ones responsible. Michael Massee was not held responsible because he is not the one that had the metal projectile still in the gun. Just like Alec Baldwin did not have a real bullet in the gun. The only reason people don't see the difference is because of their hatred for Alec. No matter how much people try to deny it. π€·ββοΈπ€·ββοΈπ€·ββοΈπ€·ββοΈ
shareOh, but he didn't pull the trigger! Just ask him! He'll tell you!
He seriously tried to peddle that story. Then a real journalist asked someone who knew about that particular gun, and they said there was no way it could have gone off without someone pulling the trigger. We're in the realm of "Duh!" at this point.
They say he might even get five years. Given the level of stupidity and negligence on his part, not only as a producer but also as the actor handling the gun -- and the fact that a woman is dead because of his negligence and stupidity -- a mere five years seems like nothing.
Lowlifes? Give me a break. He murdered someone and should be charged with something.
share"Lowlifes? Give me a break. He murdered someone and should be charged with something."
This ππ»
It's ok when a gang member or a left wing nut job does it.
shareMurder requires intent and premeditation. The circumstances here do not meet the legal definition of murder.
shareThe charge is not murder. It's negligent manslaughter. Manslaughter just means that someone died due to carelessness. Doesn't mean there was intent to kill, which is the definition of murder.
shareI wouldn't really say lowlifes. I would say it's people that hate him are happy that he's being charged. If it was a beloved celebrity most of their arguments would be in the opposite position.
shareDang. You fancy yourself a mind reader! You should be in the circus.
Baldwin makes my skin crawl. He's the perfect bad guy. Typecasting.
My favorite actor is retired now, but when he was 100% he did a movie with Baldwin called "Mercury Rising." It was one of Bruce Willis's best movies.
In it he had to handle a gun. (So did Baldwin. I'm glad no one was killed. He aimed his gun and pulled the trigger point blank in Willis's face.) If my beloved Bruce Willis had shot anyone, I would want him appropriately charged, too.
Sure Jan. π₯±π₯±π₯±π₯±
shareI know you think you live in my head, but when someone dies under these circumstances, someone has to be charged. I'd say that if it were Bruce Willis, Denzel Washington, or James Garner back in his prime. I'd say it, regretfully, about any of my favorite actors. It looks as if you're biased, so you assume everyone else must be biased, too.
Whatever. Play mind reader again, if you want to cement that reputation. I'm done.
[β] Destinata (1574) 11 minutes ago
I'm done. If you're not, have the last word
[β] Destinata (1574) 6 minutes ago
I know you think you live in my head, but when someone dies under these circumstances, someone has to be charged. I'd say that if it were Bruce Willis, Denzel Washington, or James Garner back in his prime. I'd say it, regretfully, about any of my favorite actors. It looks as if you're biased, so you assume everyone else must be biased, too.
Whatever. Play mind reader again, if you want to cement that reputation. I'm done
They aren't just any morons, they're MAGAts who don't like Alec for making fun of their lord.
shareTrump deserves anything he gets for ramming those vaccines through with his Operation Warp Speed. And for keeping Fauci in. It's funny how the truth is slowly coming out about those vaccines. I guess when not ALL of Big Tech is lying about them, the rest are going to have to start being a little more truthful.
shareAlways treat a gun as if its loaded, even on a movie set. Pointing a gun at a camera operator while rehearsing was a reckless thing to do. Did he know better? It might not matter that Baldwin was told there were blanks in the gun. We'll see what details come out in the trial.
shareI bet the family of the deceased will be happy you said that.
share