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does no sex before marriage make for better/longer lasting bond?


does no sex before marriage make for better/longer lasting bond?

why or why not?

Do we have any REAL stats to back up one system or the other?

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IMHO it only makes for a better bond when at least one partner is a possessive psycho who thinks they own the other, and takes the whole process of waiting for the wedding night as proof of ownership.

Never marry someone who wants to wait until the wedding night. Find out what you're getting!

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Isn't it just as possessive to pressure someone into such a thing they're not ready for? That's a struggle a lot of girls have faced. They'd rather wait until their wedding night, or at least the right moment when some time has passed. Then the boyfriend will break up with them because of it. It automatically complicates things.

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Older generations waited for marriage. More traditional. More willing to make marriage work. Divorce was less common with previous generations, but it wasn't as acceptable. People didn't live as long, too. Spouse died before you became sick of each other.

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Older generations didn't have access to reliable birth control, so if they had any sense, they waited until they were ready to be parents.

And while it's true that older generations were more willing to work things out, they were also far more likely to be stuck or trapped in loveless or violent marriages. When I was a kid there were no public resources for victims of domestic violence, and damn few families were supportive of people who needed to get away from a psycho spouse before they were killed. Everyone would also tell people to stay in miserable but non-violent marriages "for the sake of the children", or tell women to forgive cheating spouses, and men would stay because joint custody was unknown and they'd see little of the children after a divorce. No, things weren't actually that good, in the "good old days".

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I don't disagree, but I know happy marriages among both the Greatest and Silent Generations. Having sex before marriage isn't a prerequisite.

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I know happy marriages among every generation! Yes, younger people are more likely to divorce when there are issues, but they're also more likely to be civilized ex-spouses who manage joint custody appropriately.

So I'm not going to praise one generation over another. And I still think that getting to know each other in ever possible way before marrriage, is more likely ro result in a successful marriage than marrying because your hormones, and family and/or church, are calling the shots.

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It works both ways. Neither should anyone be forced to have sex before marriage if it's against their values. The couple should both agree.

Celebs who waited:
https://people.com/celebrity/sean-lowe-tim-tebow-lolo-jones-celebrity-virgins/

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Yes, couples should agree on when to initiate sex, when or whether to have children, where to live, and what's right and what's wrong, etc. So if they want to wait, they are of course free to disregard my recommendations.

But just so you know, there are gay rumors circulating around all those "celebrity virgins", especially Tebow. I'm not saying the rumors are true, no sensible person ever says that about an internet rumor, I'm just saying there's a more than one reason that a person might wait to have sex with a member of the opposite sex....

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It appears many of them are practicing Christians including Tebrow and his wife. His parents were missionaries and he was home-schooled. I bet they read the Bible on dates.

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I bet you're right about reading the bible on dates!

And I sincerely hope that Tebow isn't gay, because growing up as the home-schooled child of conservative missionaries would be hell on Earth for a gay boy. So it'd be great, if for once it was true that it really did take a guy a long time to find the right girl...

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people married younger back then

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Societies where people marry very young generally lack widespread reliable access to birth control. If there's no birth control, as I said, you wait until you're ready to be a parent!

Or at least the women do, in such societies men usually both have more sexual freedom, and the freedom to abandon any children they might have fathered in the course of non-marital relationships.

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my aunt got married at age 16 back in 1927. no one thought there was anything wrong with it.

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Can I ask how old her husband was?

Because yes, back in those days it was normal for teenagers to get married when they finished high school and start having babies right away, because they didn't have much in the way of reliable birth control and the cost of living was so low it was possible for a couple of teens and a baby to live on one person's salary. Gone are the days...

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19

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Yeah, in those days a 19-year-old male could get a job that could feed a family and maybe pay a mortgage, as long as he was white and not from the wrong religion or ethnic background or anything, because most jobs didn't require college degrees and the cost of living was low. In fact a high school education was the equivalent of a bachelor's degree today, because child labor was still legal and lots of working-class kids entered the work force at age 12 or younger.

And without reliable birth control, the average teenager couldn't get laid unless he got married, so people married young because it was financially possible, and because their hormones told them to.

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He said they married in 1927... I would not trade places with them...

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As indoor plumbing was surprisingly rare in 1927, neither would I.

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Indoor plumbing is nice, I grant you that, but I was thinking more of the Great Depression and World War 2.

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That too!

But yeah, during the Roaring Twenties, quite a lot of those glamorous Flappers and Sheiks were using chamber pots and outdoor privies. It wouldn't do.

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Birth control was illegal. Sex education could land you in jail. Both were immoral in the 1920s. Women were expected to have many babies.

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Condoms aid diaphragms existed at the time, but weren't legal everywhere, and in some areas doctors could only prescribe diaphragms to married women. I don't know if latex condoms existed at the time, but I don't think they were very reliable and a guy couldn't buy them at the 7-11 down the corner.

So really, for most people, they really did have to wait until they were ready to be parents. Or at least women did.

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People died younger in their mid-50s, too.

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I was raised in a Christian household. I was taught to believe in waiting until marriage. I agree with it, but if you want to live together/ have a sexual relationship before marriage, it's your choice. I don't think it's the worst thing, but could be unwise. I think you're taking a much bigger risk of things not working out, but it works for some people.

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THIS 💯

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Oh I wasn't actually expecting anyone to agree with me.

Yeah, I know people who wait/people who don't wait and always see different results.

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I respectfully disagree, i would think that refusing to get to know each other sexually before marriages would mean a much greater risk of things going haywire than otherwise.

I've read a lot of random books over the years, and yes. Back when most people waited for the wedding night there were plenty of.... disappointments. One woman even said that she didn't know anyone who actually enjoyed their honeymoon, things were rough for all couples at that time.

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I agree with you, also. There is no one rule for everyone to follow.

I believe married couples fight more about money than sex, anyway.

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It's a very secular thing. Of course I know when I meet unmarried couples or see them portrayed on tv as living together, a lot of them are not Christian/religious. You see that MUCH less among religious people. Maybe I'm completely wrong but they're much more likely to want to commit and have a life together, tying along with their moral values they were brought up with. Yes, I think people should wait, but I don't really actually care. It's my personal view but I don't go around feeling bothered about it. I think it just bothers me sometimes knowing that people try to have all that there is in a marriage without a marriage, but they can't and it may not last.

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"I think it just bothers me sometimes knowing that people try to have all that there is in a marriage without a marriage, but they can't and it may not last."

Well, sometimes people DO have all that there is in a marriage without marriage, I've known several couples who were together as long as they both lived, without benefit of marriage, including two close friends who were together forty-odd years without the formality of a legal marriage (one of whom was deeply religious). Hell, I've known a "side piece" relationship that lasted as long as they both lived, they loved each other and both believed in open relationships, and continued to see each other for decades, even though both were seeing others.

Human relationships are complex and unpredictable, and sometimes cohabitation lasts for a lifetime, and sometimes legal marriages end during the wedding reception. There are no rules about what will make a relationship work over the long term, because what works for one person won't work for another.

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My grandparents were not married to each for many years (he is not my real grandfather, and my grandma had remarried several times before she met him.) So they lived together like they were married until they had to. They did this during a time when it still wasn't very normal, the 80s. Because of legal reasons, it's really hard to avoid at some point. Documents, names, make things a lot easier in the long run. People say marriage complicates things, but I see it as the other way, trying to live a life together without marriage makes everything much more complicated.

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Marriage has certain legal, tax and financial benefits like a spouse can't be disinherited, go on your spouse's cheaper health insurance and receive a deceased spouse's social security.

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Yes, that is a reasonable argument for marrying instead of cohabiting, even if a married couple keeps their finances separate or even live in separate homes (I can see the appeal of each having their own living space).

But well, people make their own choices, and some people choose to marry because they just want sex they won't feel guilty about, and others refuse to marry because they think the element of free choice makes their relationship stronger. So IMHO the only rule about human long-term relationships is that there are no rules.

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I agree with that. But, just my personal observation of couples with different lifestyles. The married couples in long term relationships with children have a lot more stability, doing very well financially (2 income) and children are much more well-adjusted and successful. Also, they tend to be happier.

I'm comparing with serial partnerships, children from different fathers and single-parent households. More poverty, more anger, more dysfunction, more chaos.

I know women who didn't marry in order to get government support even though the boyfriend was middle-class and could support them. He usually leaves. Her lifestyle and the kid's remain poor. Now, 40% of children are born to unwed mothers.

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I agree that it's a bad idea to have children when you aren't financially stable, or to have children by multiple partners, or to present your children with a series of stepparents and stepsiblings. Don't get me started!

But I'd really rather not get into breeding and child-rearing, which is a different issue that romantic relationships, although some people like to pretend it isn't.

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Sometimes a different issue. I know plenty of unmarried women who became pregnant then married the guy. Birth control isn't 100%.

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I agree, to each their own

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I like the below post about the study that was done, but also seems like there is no way to really see it played out correctly in this day and age when we grow up and pretty much told to experiment a lot in college... that immediately defeats the option of thinking in a mindset of being true to only one. Well always think there is better out there, unless we grew up thinking one is all we ever need.

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Well always think there is better out there, unless we grew up thinking one is all we ever need.


This is quite the profound statement and beautifully worded.

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I don't regard any source to be "true" or "untrue." I try to speak about these topics from the experiences I see around me. I certainly don't believe it's always just a "bad" vs. "good" issue, but there's a reason not even so long ago, there were certain rules/expectation set in place in society that constituted people to practice patience and self control. Of course, it still caused a lot of problems in the long run. You could say sneaking, hiding big secrets/scandals, along with shaming individuals. But no matter what time, there will always be those problems of defiance and disobedience anyways. I guess now I realize I'm talking more about really young people. It's a lot different for them then for middle aged people entering relationships.

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I think that it probably does, because it typical comes with a traditional set of values, based on family, and if both people share those same values, they are probably higher than average to stay together. But I have no evidence to back that up.

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Here's a link to research on this very topic. https://ifstudies.org/blog/does-sexual-history-affect-marital-happiness

Cutting right to the chase, here's the short and sweet summary....

"In sum, the surprisingly large number of Americans reporting one lifetime sex partner have the happiest marriages. Past one partner, it doesn’t make as much of a difference. The overall disparity isn’t huge, but neither is it trivial."

Here are the numbers from a couple of tables in the article....

Women -- "Table 1 shows how a women’s sexual biography affects the happiness of her marriage.2 The first column includes the baseline estimates. Women who’ve only slept with their spouses are, at 65%, most likely to report very happy marriages. Thereafter, there’s a decline that’s statistically-significant but modest in magnitude. The lowest odds of marital happiness, 52% in the baseline model, accord to women who’ve had six-to-10 lifetime sexual partners. Women who’ve had 11 or more lovers are a bit more likely to report happy marriages at 57 percent."

Men -- "Table 2 shows how men’s sexual biographies affect their marital happiness. As for women, men who report only one sexual partner in their lifetime are more likely to report very happy marriages. The benefits of one partner are slightly greater for men than for women: according to the baseline results, 71% of men with one partner are very happy in their relationship. This drops to 65% for men who report two or more sex partners. The happiness penalty for additional partners is modest, only a few percentage points. Adjusting for differences in marital history, socioeconomic status, and religion make little difference."

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Super interesting thanks for posting this. Kinda says yeah, your chances ARE IN FACTS better sticking with one and growing, making it work.

I think we are screwing everything up, because we deny younger people the potential to fall in love at an earlier age, thus, GROWING together in impressionable years. Instead those years are wasted on playing around.... god knows what tinder is doing to all this also.
Any way seems like some people are less happy and wishing to regress

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It does make sense. You save yourself for the one you're ready to spend the rest of your life with.

But given the stigma for being a virgin, and the fear of marrying someone with no sexual chemistry, most don't wait.

I'm sure many waited for their wedding night only to discover they were asexual, or homosexual, because they didn't 'rise to the occasion'. Hence non-consummation of marriage was always grounds to annul a marriage.

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I have read articles that suggest the more sex partners women have the more trouble they have forming a bond or connection with men. Not sure if it also applies to lesbians.

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Where was that article published, MRA MONTHLY magazine?

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There's some studies online if you type it in. Everyday Health has one.

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Calling bullshit on the idea, because that's what a lot of straight male idiots want to believe - but wanting to believe something never yet made it so. They want to believe that sexual freedom is good for the mental and physical health of men and bad for the mental and physical health of women, because they like the idea of having more sexual freedom than women.

It's all self-serving idiocy, and frank illogic too, because who the hell are all these straight men supposed to be fucking if the women somehow all become convinced that sex is bad for their mental and physical health? Anyone who believes that is several kinds of idiot, including the kind that can't do simple math or basic logic.

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"because who the hell are all these straight men supposed to be fucking if the women somehow all become convinced that sex is bad for their mental and physical health? "

A few very tired women?

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I've read the same and I've found it bears out IRL at higher partner counts. I think they can bond but it will break a lot more easily.

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I agree. I think constantly feeling used and abused even if they think they are being strong independent women takes a toll.

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I ALSO AGREE...BUT IT APPLIES TO MEN AND WOMEN EQUALLY.

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I agree with your experience here, and DISAGREE that it applies to men and women equally. Men and women are VERY different sexually. Not because men THINK so, but because it IS so. Men could bang hundreds of women, and never feel a shred of guilt or remorse or bonding, where women have feelings and bonding - PROVEN VIA ACTUAL SCIENCE AGAIN AND AGAIN - making us very different animals. Not saying it is right, just that it is what it is.
Women getting that "run through" feeling is not men imposed gaslighting, it is how they are designed in pair bonding.

So, yeah, no, it is NOT the same for men and women. We are very different and always will be.
Not saying the imbalance is right or wrong, just that it exists. And it will never change.

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There are some universal truths that people just need to accept whether they are fashionable or not. There's a reason why men are considered studs for bedding lots of women, it is difficult for men to do that, they have to persevere and work at it. Women on the other hand can get laid quite easily. Women exercise a peculiar double standard here, look at most female dating profiles and it is just a list of demands without them ever stating what they bring to a relationship. If you were to ask one what the man gets she would look a you quizzically and say "He gets me!"

The human anatomy being what it is also plays a part. For women sex involves allowing someone inside them, this is far more personal and intimate than a man who is doing the entering. Not to mention that until contraceptives women get pregnant and bear the child from an encounter. Men can or at least in the past could just walk away, often most likely never knowing or caring if they have just created life.

It is what it is.

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I'm guessing you would like the movie Soft and Quiet.

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Never heard of it, the only hit I got was a horror film from 2022?

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yup. truth is a hard pill to swallow these days. for some odd reason.

when was the last time we heard or EVER heard of a female entertainer, or famous sports gal with TONS of guys lining up for sex? I say never. Yet, flip it, and famous and sports guys have tons of women lining up. Weird? Facts of life as they are.

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NO MA'AM (National Organization of Men Against Amazonian Masterhood)

Signed, million man.

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