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I'm only a few minutes in, but don't people normally just take children to Drag Brunches?
I do love Trixie Mattel. (and Ginger Minj)
MovieChat Forums > General Discussion > [deleted]
But... but if drag queens engage and entertain children, the kids will...
*checks notes*
...will be exposed to ideas of acceptance and tolerance in a safe and supportive environment.
This outrages me because I abide by the backwards notion that culture must be completely static. How dare these people exemplify progressive social norms and not stay rooted in the fantasy of 1950s white monoculture like the angry hateful high blood pressured loudmouths in my tiny social media bubble idolize. Why can't we go back to the days when disparaging and demeaning anyone we thought of as "others" was more socially acceptable?
I'm surprised those who hold the above mindset with the utmost sincerity haven't chimed in yet.
I didn’t expect them too Freddy. If you’re of that mindset you’re hardly going to watch a video that destroys every paper-thin argument you use to justify your internal bigotry, especially if it’s hosted by one of those queer-o-sexuals themselves!
shareBut if children attend Drag Queen Storytime at the library...
... then they'll hear a safe and unobjectionable children's story! And their parents can actually enjoy the damn kiddie story for once!
The usual suspects.
Great movie! Wrong thread.
shareVery true.
Also love the movie.
What’s very true? That there’s people here who challenge your conservative ideals? I’m sure you’ll survive.
You and your hunchback mate always had the option not to read the post if you have such a problem with said usual suspects, you know.
I have conservative ideals??? No clue where you got that. But typical you made that assumption.
shareApologies if I got that wrong, but it’s not as if I pulled it out of nowhere. The fact that you agreed with Quasi’s snarky comment (which I noticed you still haven’t explained) seems to suggest you favour a particular way of thinking.
But whatever. Have a nice day.
Lots of love
The Usual Suspect 😘
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The UK has a much different relationship with Drag Queens. Men dressing up as women is ingrained in our psyche and goes back as far as Shakespearian times. You only have to look at British comedy (Monty Python, Dick Emery, Les Dawson, Little Britain, to name but a few) to see how deeply this goes; there's also pantomime for children and vaudeville.
Over here it's viewed as harmless fun and if anyone came into my local pub and tried to politicise it by ranting how its a tool to groom children, we'd all just take the piss and throw things at them.
I think that’s true in regards to British culture, and Australians have definitely inherited some of that, the fact that Dame Edna remains our most lauded comedy export is testament to it. Then we have Carlotta, star of Australia’s first drag revue Les Girls in the 70s, who I believe was the first openly LGBT actor (and character) to feature in a prime time soap opera anywhere in the world. Of course then there was Priscilla Queen of the Desert in the 90s. Even the first series of Australian Idol in 2003 featured a drag queen contestant, Courtney Act, who has gone on to have a long successful career globally.
It may be why I find the accusations and suspicion in some sections of this forum so weird. I mean, we’re talking about men in wigs and dresses. Although there is definitely a certain artistic statement and political aspect to drag, it’s essentially pretty ridiculous and funny.. to demonise it speaks to a deeper level of fear and mistrust of LGBT people in general.
I’ve known a few drag queens in my time, and I can categorically say that none of them have displayed even the slightest interest in children. I love what Trixie says in that video about it being men in other types of dresses (priests) that have been the real threat, it’s so true and something no one ever mentions when losing their shit over Drag Queen story hour.
I've just noticed you username is two greek letters
I've been reading it as "the stigmata" all this time !
just thought i'd blurt that out
.. I'll get me coat
Haha.. I love it!
Oh could you imagine the reaction I’d get from certain individuals if I dared to use that as a username? Even the mere mention of the big JC a few days ago made a few go nuclear!
Religion is no joking matter, unless your Dave Allen (popular 70's Irish comedian, who relentlessly made fun of the Catholic Church, in a harmless, light hearted way).
shareYup, yup, yup to all of this.
The tradition basically originates from women not being allowed into theatres back in ol' Bill Shakies's time, doesn't it? I mean, that's what all the cross-dressing is about in Shakespeare's plays: audiences watching a man pretending to be a woman pretending to be a man. A meta comment on the acting restrictions of the era.
So we've had it for literally hundreds of years -- longer than some nations we could mention have even existed -- and as far as we're aware no-one's ever died as a result of it, so it's basically fine.
^Exactly this^
Apart from the fact that the odd thespian (behave, I said thespian, THESPIAN!) may have died on stage.
Trixie Mattel is a riot and I'll hear no ill spoken against her! If people don't want their children groomed, maybe they should be idk hanging out with them? Monitoring who they interact with? Parents do often love to clutch pearls but many don't love to parent.
shareAh that’s so cool, I honestly thought sslssg and myself would be the only people here who would even be aware of Trixie’s existence, let alone an admirer of her work. She’s actually quite an accomplished country musician and songwriter too, but I suppose that’s a topic for another thread.
Agree with your other comments wholeheartedly too 👍
Really? She's s pretty famous, interacts with a lot of the internet personalities I like and was on Ru Paul's Drag Race, a very popular show. She's no Ben Delacreme, but she did win a season of the show, so she's well known.
Update from Ben Delacreme recently on the subject:
https://www.tiktok.com/@bendelacreme/video/7214511464185449770
GOOD ONE...I LIKE TRIXIE..HAVE NOT WATCHED HER CHANNEL THOUGH...I ALSO ENJOY THE FACT THAT THIS THREAD SEEMS TO BE A GROUP OF OPEN MINDED RATIONAL PEOPLE WITH ONLY samoanjoke™️ RUINING THE UNITY WITH HIS GROSS BULLSHIT...BECUSE HE IS THE WORST OF US.
shareWhat gross bullshit? I said I was okay with it as long as it's not sexual in front of kids. There are drag performers who cross the line in front of kids. Here's examples of how:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/alabama/video-2793855/Video-Alabama-school-teacher-makes-lewd-innuendos-kids.html
https://youtu.be/7Qdy6VBW0JY?t=36
https://youtu.be/efp9X3xtbyc?t=26
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11197833/Tennessee-Tech-slammed-putting-campus-drag-mocking-Christianity-kids-present.html
If these were straight guys we'd all have a problem with it, but because they're dressed as women we're supposed to be okay with it? You want to invite a drag queen to read a kids book to class, cool. But don't be sexual about it.
EVERYONE REMEMBER THIS...LOOK AT THE EFFORT...THIS DUDE IS WAY INTO ME.🙂
shareNo, I just like to provide receipts to my statements. There is absolutely no reason why a drag queen should be suggestively dancing in front of kids.
shareYOU MADE THIS WEIRD.😐
shareThe thread is about drag queens and children and my replies are all about that. If you think that's weird, what do you think about drag performers who dance around kids like the ones in the video?
shareLook. I grew up in the world of dance, and although it wasn't as bad as now, even in the 80s and 90s that was highly sexualized. Look at any female pop stars music video. Isn't that highly sexualized dancing?
There is a lot of innuendo in pantos, and kids watch those all the time. As for skimpy clothes, if that was a woman on a beach walking with her daughter would you have an issue with it?
Do you know what damaged me more as a child than drag queens? Creepy men who would catcall me when I was like 10 or 11 years old. I mean that followed me into my 30s, but seriously. It's usually a conscious decision for someone to be in a place where people are in drag. It's not when you can't take the bus, walk in the mall, down the street, at the swimming pool, even the toboggan hill. Those are just some of the places that men made sexual comments to me. But oh no!! It's the drag queens who are going to corrupt our children!!!
I agree with what you're saying. However, people like Madonna were always criticized for being too sexual. But imagine she brought a kid on stage and started directly provocatively on state with the kid there. There's a difference between seeing something sexualized on and actually living it first hand. Most drag performers are just that -- performers. But you can't deny that there aren't ones that go too far and claim that it's a "child friendly event".
share“However, people like Madonna were always criticized for being too sexual. But imagine she brought a kid on stage and started directly provocatively on state with the kid there.”
Ummmm…
https://web.archive.org/web/20170507041933/https://people.com/archive/chris-finch-madonnas-high-stepping-sidekick-whos-also-a-penn-pal-vol-28-no-7/
Not to mention the video for Open Your Heart where Madonna plays a peep-show stripper and ends the video kissing a pre-teen boy.
So yeah, y’know…
She's always been criticized and that link and music video should be no different.
shareYou completely ignored my question about mom walking with a child in g- string bikini. Or that any child could watch music videos. Its not just madonna its all of them.
shareUnfortunately we can't tell people what to wear in public, so that's a little bit difficult to answer. But if some woman starting jiggling her boobs in front of the kid on purpose, that would definitely be inappropriate
The point that I was trying to make is that those kids at those drag shows weren't just there by accident. I'm pretty sure that it wasn't their money that they were giving. Now, I didn't see anything wrong with that show are the performer was not overtly sexual.The video of the drag queen walking with the little girl was completely harmless. They were walking holding hands. As for the others, I see people dressed like that often, especially when looking at pop stars. We don't shield our children from that. Madonna is a bit of an outlier because she was incredibly overt with being sexual.
What I did notice that you completely ignored was that what damaged me as a child, wasn't pop culture icons, it wasn't the Guys In Disguise show I used to see at Fringe, it wasn't seeing naked bodies when I lived in Europe. It was grown ass men making sexual comments at me before I was even a teenager. Sitting down in a food court and having someone old enough to be my grandfather telling me that he had something I could sit on.
Let's be honest. The number of children who are actually exposed to drag queens is minimal. The number of children who are exposed to adult content drag queens is even fewer. These kids have great access to porn online. I just think that this is one more reason for people to clutch their pearls and make villains out of a marginalized community that they don't even try to understand.
Now, I didn't see anything wrong with that show are the performer was not overtly sexual.The video of the drag queen walking with the little girl was completely harmless. They were walking holding hands.
Would you feel differently if it was a guy not in drag?
As for the others, I see people dressed like that often, especially when looking at pop stars. We don't shield our children from that.
Drag performers are even being asked to perform in schools. And they are outright saying that it's family friendly. As I said before, we can't tell someone how to dress in public, but that doesn't mean we expose it to them either. To clarify, I'm specifically talking about the ones who dress inappropriately, not the drag queens who wear long dresses.
What I did notice that you completely ignored was that what damaged me as a child
I didn't want to get too much into that because that was your personal experience and didn't want to dwell on it, especially since catcalling being wrong goes without saying. You're not going to get a disagreement from me there.
Let's be honest. The number of children who are actually exposed to drag queens is minimal.
As I stated in my first comment, as long as they're not sexualizing children, I don't care. But there is a difference in a child watching porn without their parent's knowledge compared to taking your kid to a drag show where there could be someone dancing sexually and framing it as "family friendly".
share
taking your kid to a drag show where there could be someone dancing sexually
🤣 AS SOMEONE WHO IS APPROACHING HIS 15TH YEAR AS A FATHER...THAT LINE IS HYSTERICAL FOR SO MANY REASONS...
DOES YOUR COMMUNITY ENDORSE THE COOL COLOR SHIRTS OR ARE YOU GUYS STUCK IN THE BORING WHITE SHIRTS?
Did you see the links I gave you?
shareWould you feel differently if it was a guy not in drag?
No. Why would it not be okay to have a man walking with a child. Not all men are sexual perverts and the idea that they are is really disgusting. A man should be able to interact with a child without the authorities being called. Now, if the man or woman was saying inappropriate things to the child or making the child feel uncomfortable that is something we can talk about.
Drag performers are even being asked to perform in schools. And they are outright saying that it's family friendly. As I said before, we can't tell someone how to dress in public, but that doesn't mean we expose it to them either. To clarify, I'm specifically talking about the ones who dress inappropriately, not the drag queens who wear long dresses.
Do you have a source for this? I mean reading a book to a class while in drag is hardly performing. It's a character. It's like someone coming in a clown costume, or someone dressed up like Barney. Also, it seems that you don't want children exposed to anyone dressed inappropriately. Not just drag queens. Again. I will ask you how often children are exposed to inappropriately dressed drag queens compared to inappropriate non drag queens? How often do you see a drag queen in your life without heading out to a drag show?
As I stated in my first comment, as long as they're not sexualizing children, I don't care. But there is a difference in a child watching porn without their parent's knowledge compared to taking your kid to a drag show where there could be someone dancing sexually and framing it as "family friendly".
Again, you don't have to watch porn to see sexual dancing. Again, turn on a music video. As for the innuendo that comes with some comedy in drag performances...innuendo is even is Disney movies. https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/best-disney-sexual-innuendos-b2130051.html
I don't know if you were one of those people who was against the movie Cuties, but I'm pretty sure those girls didn't learn those moves from Drag Queens.
share
No. Why would it not be okay to have a man walking with a child. Not all men are sexual perverts and the idea that they are is really disgusting
If a man starting grinding up against a kid, we'd all have a problem with it. If it's a drag queen, people laugh and think it's playful.
Do you have a source for this?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYCddcGWAAUHJi-?format=jpg&name=large
https://nypost.com/2022/10/13/drag-queen-halloween-party-invite-by-cali-school-board-hit/?utm_medium=SocialFlow&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/5322947/drag-queen-flow-job-paisley-school-nathan-mullen/
Here's one of a mother complaining about what a drag queen was wearing?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXlZgedC7mQ
Here's one not from school, but with kids in attendance.
https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/status/1580056525212880898
Now this is a drag show for kids I find harmless. It looks like they're all having fun:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EJoAjDNCJE
Also, it seems that you don't want children exposed to anyone dressed inappropriately. Not just drag queens.
Of course. Especially if it's in a school.
Again, you don't have to watch porn to see sexual dancing. Again, turn on a music video. As for the innuendo that comes with some comedy in drag performances...innuendo is even is Disney movies.
I'm aware. And Disney has rightfully been called out for it.
I don't know if you were one of those people who was against the movie Cuties, but I'm pretty sure those girls didn't learn those moves from Drag Queens.
Don't get me started on the creepiness of children's beauty pageants. share
If a man starting grinding up against a kid, we'd all have a problem with it. If it's a drag queen, people laugh and think it's playful.
I didn't see a man grinding up against a little girl in that video. or any of those videos. Of course that would be inappropriate. It would be inappropriate if it were a woman as well. It would also be illegal to grind privates against a child.
I also clicked on all your links. The first one was just a picture, and if the drag queen was exposing their privates to a classroom full of children, again, I think that's illegal. It's a picture, so I can't say I know what's happening there. If it was flashing underwear in an honest mistake...then we can't say that it doesn't happen when wearing short skirts.
As for the rest of the links, none of them were drag shows in schools. The one is wearing a long gown while in the school, and parents freaked out because of a picture being put on instagram. I can understand that, but no children were exposed to anything. Again, if parents are taking their kids to drag shows, then they don't have a problem with it so why should you?
I also completely avoided bringing up beauty pageants. Because those are disgusting. Also have nothing to do with drag queens.
The point of this post, and Trixie Mattel's video is that they aren't "groomers", they aren't seeking out to corrupt children. One or two people may make a mistake and behave inappropriately. That's human nature. You have dismissed my experience because it's my experience. Ask the women you know about men saying creepy shit to them. My experience is not unique. Yet no one clutches their pearls about that. In fact there was a whole movement about it that was mostly brushed off because of celebrities. share
I agree with everything you're saying, which goes back to my original point. If kids aren't involved, I don't care what drag queens do.
shareFair enough, but you said imagine if she did that and that’s EXACTLY what she did. I don’t see BillyBob from the politics section going off on a “grooming” tirade about it, either.
shareI wasn't aware she did it, but thanks for the evidence. I always thought she was gross.
shareDon’t mention it guy, I’m here to help 😂
I think the main takeaway is that grooming as a practice for child abusers is not something that’s done in public with parents in attendance. The argument that drag queens have some nefarious master plan to recruit children to the LGBT ranks by lip-syncing a show tune to them or reading them a book in a library is just shy of completely retarded and smacks, to me anyway, of homophobes clutching at any straw they can to disparage and demonise anything not 100% heterosexual.
The argument that drag queens have some nefarious master plan to recruit children to the LGBT ranks by lip-syncing a show tune
Let's be honest with ourselves here. There is nothing good about teaching children how to lip-sync. It will create a generation of kids less talented than they are now. share
There is something manifestly wrong with a socio-political viewpoint that requires the adults procure the support and acquiescence of elementary school children. This is the difference from the other examples being lobbed by Theta and sslssg.
share😐
shareI agree. There's nothing wrong with drag shows, but drag performers who seek out children should be of concern. As I mentioned above, if a man were to dance with children, we'd be concerned, but for some reason if that same man was dressed in drag, people look at it like it's playful fun.
shareI agree with you samoanjoes
shareI don't have a problem with DQs. My only issue is all the warring over what other people get to do with people's children. If the kid's parents are cool with Drag-storytime then great. I don't like all the "you're wrong! now let us do what we like around your kids" stuff.
Bottom line: If it's cool with the kid's parents then it's cool. If not then leave it alone. No war, ffs.
That’s a reasonable stance. I think the thing to remember, and another thing Trixie Mattel alludes to in the video, is that these queens are not searching for family events to infiltrate. They are being asked to perform. The inference that there’s some underground committee of drag performers fiendishly plotting to perform in front of as many children as possible is just dumb.
Do some queens go too far and act inappropriately for the audience? Absolutely, and it’s understandable if parents are rightfully upset if their child sees something inappropriate. I honestly believe though that this is the smallest of minority cases. Also, 99% of drag is not even intended for children to watch, it’s performed in front of consenting adults in adult venues.
Again, I think those shouting their disgust the loudest though are those latching on to these few inappropriate instances as some sort of proof that all drag entertainers are immoral degenerates out to recruit children, and that simply isn’t the case.
100% this^
It's all about consent. Don't freak out about what people want for their children. Build your sand castles at a chosen distance and don't kick each other's work.