Why is employing child actors not a crime?
It's a crime to employ minors in, say, the textile industry, or basically any other industry. Why is the film industry treated differently?
shareTHATS A WONDERFUL QUESTION/LOOPHOLE....
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MovieChat Forums > General Discussion > Why is employing child actors not a crim...
Because there are strict regulations limiting the hours that a child can work per day as well as requirements for maintaining their continued schooling during the period of a shoot. This is well documented.
shareYES...BUT THOSE REGULATIONS AND REQUIREMENTS ARE IN PLACE FOR ONE PROFESSION,AND ONLY ONE...WHY CANT KIDS FOLLOW SAME REGULATIONS AND WORK ELSEWHERE?...IT IS ODD WHEN YOU STOP AND THINK ABOUT IT.
share1. There's a distinct difference between the physical demands of hard labor and acting.
2. It costs companies more money to break the law than it does to abide by it.
So if one employ a kid in a textile factory, but limited their working hours and keep the schooling etc. etc. then it's fine? Are minors actually okay to work or not?
shareThat's a false equivalency.
shareWhat's the problem then?
shareHow is there even a problem? The laws are what they are
shareThe laws are not perfect. They change all the time. I think it's time to change the laws about child employement in the entertainment industry.
shareStart digging.
shareYeah, laws change all the time.
Ten minutes ago I robbed my neighbor, but NOW it's not a crime ! Lucky me.
Poor Ronny Howard and his childhood upbringing. Wish I never saw a kid on screen or TV for the rest of my life.
Sarcasm alert, if one is needed.
Acting isn't like most other jobs that a child would be capable of doing. It's not manual labor. There's usually a lot of downtime on set that they can use for studying or for just being a kid.
Also, no child actors would mean you couldn't really have characters young enough that a young adult couldn't play them. Or maybe you'd end up having to animate them or make an adult actor appear younger with CGI. That's only an option recently, though. Since they didn't have another option, maybe lawmakers decided this would be one place to make an exception.
CGI is good enough now that dead people can act in Star Wars. I think minor employments in the movie industry will be banned in the future. It's only logical.
Except, if some pedos with power lobbied the lawmakers to stay away from their turf.
I agree that being a child actor can be bad for the child. But if it was banned think of what the world would miss out on. Without knowing the statistics I would imagine there are many child actors who are not damaged by the experience along with those who are.
I know. I was just questioning the logic here. Why is it allowed? Are movies oh so important we knowingly ruined SOME kids lives just so we get entertained? Where's the morality?
Also, I hate movies with kids in it because usually the plot would be very predictable and nothing bad can actually happens to a kid in a Hollywood movie. Even if they faced great great danger, they will be saved in timely manner without a scratch. Killing any suspense of the scenes.
I'd argue movies would be better if there are NO kids character in them. Yes, we can have kids running around or walking past by the camera to show some realism, but they shouldn't be used extensively. Their acting usually are pretty bad too, but they get a pass everytime because hey they're just kids.
Kids movies can just be made as animations instead. Animation movies are universally better recieved than live-action kiddie movies anyway.
But then no Dakota Fanning, no Mae Whitman, no Saoirse Ronan and no Rollo Weeks as child actors. It doesn't bear thinking about. Better to have all child actors regularly checked by an independent psychiatrist to assess their mental health and advise accordingly than to outright ban it.
They can start acting when they were, say 16, cause that's legal adult age in some states. Still plenty young and they would be more educated and trained so they'd start better. If they were some genius acting prodigy they would still prevail nonetheless.
shareYou need to see The Fall (2006). It has a little girl who co-stars with Lee Pace. She's spectacular in it, as is he. It's not a children's movie. The movie couldn't have been made without her.
Also, To Kill A Mockingbird.
Case closed 🔨
i never thought of that aktionkamen, to make movies i guess
shareI know, they can also be employed in a textile factory to make clothes I guess. But no, that would be illegal. Why is making movies oh so special? Are movies more important than clothes?
sharewell we have enough adults to make clothes. but there is no way an adult can play a child in a movie. unless they super impose child characters. they do get an eduction while they act though i imagine it would be a big job for a child.
shareIf there are enough adults to make clothes there would be no kids employed in textile factories in third world countries.
Also, adults can play aliens, monsters, gorillas, gollum, robots, zombies, etc. With CGI anything can be made these days. That excuse may fly before 2000s, but now even dead people can act! Why keep employing minors?
haha. agreed. let them be kids. really it could just be like school. with a lot of acting classes. acing assinments. it could be a good thing for some kids. just depends who you are i guess. i wouldn't know from experience though so i shouldn't comment.
shareMae Whitman 10 years old in 'Hope Floats' (1998)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BjnwESs7ho
Could an adult have done that ?
Not in 1998. But, then again, dead people can't do Star Wars either in 1998.
Also, even if there was no movie like that it wouldn't make any difference to our lives. It's not important enough to risk of some kids lives ruined by Hollywood.
I respect your opinion but I don't agree with it. A total ban is over the top in my opinion.
Why people keep putting movies in a pedestal like it's something of so incredibly importance that some innocent kids lives should be sacrificed to make them? Where's the morality here?
shareYou ask that here !? On a website made for movie lovers to talk about the films they love !? You cannot be serious !!!
I know people here love movies and movies are important, but not THAT important. And don't call me Sirius!
shareWell it's better than being called the Dog Star ! Something you are leaving out of your equation is the parents. Saoirse Ronan has said she never had to put up with any crap making movies because her mother was always with her keeping an eye on things.
But you are saying no children should make movies because some of them have negligent parents. So if we followed your logic then all children should be taken away from their parents because some parents abuse their children. Am I right or am I right ?
Then why is it illegal for kids to work in any other industry? Why only the movie industry is allowed? Why not just allow them all equally?
shareWell Hollywood goes right back to the days when children did do all sorts of work including hard labour as farmhands. So it's not so much why does Hollywood do this as why did other industries stop doing it.
to give children educations the education act came in or something
shareYeah that rings a bell. Look I'm not in favour of kids picking fruit for 12 hours a day or anything like that but acting is not that demanding if there are rules restricting how much they can do. And if the child is eager and willing I don't see any problem with it.
Its probably a delicate topic. Children should not have to work like an adult, ever. Kids in cinema is common. Often they do not star in a lot of the scenes. I think that is fine. People like the Olsen twins would have had a different story. among others. kids that dedicate their full child hood to one show. i think it would have been cool to do a few scenes as a kid. not a series that went my entire childhood... thats a lot of time to spend on one thing for a kid. they want to use their imaginations also.
shareYeah but some kids absolutely love acting. Why deprive them of it ?
thats right Quasi. you just got to look out for people over doing it i think. maybe that is why actionkamen bought it up..... i don't really watch TV. People can put too many expectations on kids in lots of regards. look at forced religion. forced medications even.. expecting them to act right, expecting them to listen to verses of relgious texts they could not possibly yet comprehend making them suseptible to brain washing.. a bit of acting is alright. just don't over do it... jmo
shareExactly right. Common sense and diligent supervision is all that should be required.
Yeah. I think banning the employment of child actors is good.
It's not like like kids can't appear in a movie or a show. Just showing kids is all right. They can receive presents or trophies for participating in a production.
Just not actually acting or starring. Given roles and jobs for the exchange of payment, because they comes with so much pressure and responsibilites they should not bear yet.
But just standing or playing in the background, or walking past by the camera to add realism for the movies is fine I guess. That's not a real job.
Also they wouldn't be known or famous. It's good to keep children lives private.
I think kids should be able to act. Just like kids should be able to write and sing and and have ideas and what not. Its like if someone does something really impressive they get rewarded. So I think maybe they could make future accounts for the children when they turn 18 for the shows future moneys income and gift them in the present also what ever that is. which they probably do. people give money as gifts. its probably easier to keep it as money. but also i think your right. they can take it too seriously for a child with pay checks. but maybe its just like being paid to go to school... who would know you'd really have to ask people who where child actors for a real answer
shareFirst the parents have to get entertainment work permits and set up a Coogan Trust account for their earnings. Then there has to be teachers on set so the kids can be educated when they are not performing. Also their hours are limited by age, which is why you see a lot of twins hired.
shareIt sounds fine. I think they are saying so why can children not have arrangements like these in other fields? Only child actors have opportunity to shine professionally. Not children who are mechanically minded, scientific, artistic (sort of), good with languages. THAT is what ACTIONKAMEN WANTS PEOPLE TO THINK ABOUT. Why only the Child Actors and Actresses? Is it... IN FACT... to young.. as looking at other fields decision on the matter would show. Hollywood is granted a bit of silver light permission for the silver screen. What about children who speak multiple languages working in Intelligence? Or a horse rider in the Melbourne Cup at 14? ARE OTHER FEILDS NOT TRUSTED BUT HOLLYWOOD IS. I personally would QUESTION that. Actionkamen is right, they should be at school. Hollywood should only be an adventure for them. Not a full time job. Who do are other people taken for? Fools? Typical of society to do that in general.
shareI think that perhaps the difference is that those kids who work in the textile industry are paid essentially nothing. It's really slave labour. If those kids were paid a decent wage and not taken advantage of, would we feel the same way? If those kids were able to choose those jobs and were not doing them because they have no other choice to try to help their families would it be so bad? If they also worked in decent conditions and had contracts that guaranteed that they would be treated well, guaranteed education, their parents had to be there to supervise and make sure that everything they did was okay, I'm sure we wouldn't feel the same way.
shareIdk, what you propose here is a slippery slope. There are reasons minor employments is banned at all costs. Some works could actually be beneficial for kids, like mowing neighbours' grass or such. We know for decades it is good for kids' mentality. But no way we would legalize a grass mowing industry employing kids. Even when the wage is decent and not taken advantage of.
Kids lives ruined by the movie industry is not unheard of. They are being taken advantages, we know this. Pedophilia cases in Hollywood is almost like an inside joke. Those wages have consequences because to maintain their lives they need to spend equally lots of money.
What do you mean minor employment is banned at all costs? Granted there are now more restrictions on what kids can do, but have you seen some of the kid entrepreneurs? Some of them have made a ton of money running their own companies before they are teenagers. Where I live it's legal for a 12 year old to have a job as long as they have their parents permission. Anyone over 14 doesn't need permission unless they are working a job with hours after midnight. Also if one is under the age of 12 and there is a proven need to be employed an individual can work.
I agree that the abuse is a different story, but I think that's improving now as well.
Enterpreneurs are self employed. Also that Youtube kid Ryan comes with controversies as well. Some of them are maybe living as hellish lives as kid Michael Jackson but nobody cares. They need their ad clicks so bad.
shareI'm not talking about Ryan. I'm talking about kids who have sock companies, who have designed soap and beauty products, the kid saving the bees with lemonade, the kid who was selling her clothes at Nordstroms when she was 12, that sort of thing. I'm talking about kids who want to work. You are talking about kids who are forced into it it seems? and that's another ball of wax.
I wanted money when I was a kid and started delivering flyers when I was 8, and I have been employed ever since. Some of it was babysitting, then I taught music and dancing all before I was 14. I know that times are different now, but some kids want to do these things. If I had ever been scouted to act at that age I'm not sure my mom could have stopped me.
While I agree that there needs to be protections for children, and they do need to be monitored, not all child workers in the first world are treated poorly and have horrible lives.
Idk kids are doing those jobs. New things to learn, I guess. Are they real jobs tho? Like what child actors do? I mean, if that's just a gig? Saving bees with lemonades? What does that job even actually do?
Also I'm not very familiar with jobs children do. But are they employed by some kind of corporations? Are newspapers kid actually employed by the company or it's subsidiary? Like legally? With contracts and everything like a child actor would have?
What I propose here is not outright banning children from appearing in movies, but banning the employment of child actors. So movies may keep showing minors, it would be jarring if no kid is ever in movies. But don't give them roles to act, to star, to work in exchange of payments that comes with huge demands, pressure and responsibilities. Just have them playing around in the background or walking past the camera to add realism to the movie.
And then throw them into online social media to promote the movie only to be mocked, criticized, make fun of, and edited into nude photos, etc. No children should bear these nonsense.
And then throw them into online social media to promote the movie only to be mocked, criticized, make fun of, and edited into nude photos, etc. No children should bear these nonsense.
Happens to kids regardless of fame. I wish it weren't true and I am thankful everyday that I didn't grow up with that pressure. share
Not as a child actor would get. If I type my name and add "nude" at the end of it, I got random pictures. Try that with Emma Watson for example...
shareOf course it's not on the same scale. Fame is an issue no question. But, are any of those pictures of Emma Watson nude from when she was under 18?
shareWell, I don't know, I didn't check. But you get the idea.
Also of all this is not necessary anyway. Hollywood used to endanger, harm, maim or straight up kill animals to make movies look good. But turned out, it's not necessary afterall.
Hollywood actually can make good and convincing movies without harming animals. Which they thought would be impossible back then.
Nowadays, animals in movies are virtually all CGI. So eliminating minor employment in the industry will be the next step.
My point was that if there is a nude out there that is of her when she is under 18 it's illegal. Its child porn. So I'm guessing that most of those nudes are of her over 18, and she still acts, so your point is moot.
We can agree to disagree on this topic. I hate cgi animals in most movies and I would certainly not watch an animated Stranger Things, or even Annie.
you should study the Industrial Revolution and child slave labour in England and see why they bought in a mandatory education system. Are there kids slaving for a pay check are there?
shareI know about the child slave labour in England, but I am confused at what you are asking?
sharebecause it was proven that it was too dificult for children to work all day.
shareI still don't understand what you are trying to tell me. Are you denying that there is no child labour in the world today? Or are you just explaining why it is wrong for children to be forced to work?
sharei'm just explaining why children should not have to work. and that also they are too young to say 'yes Mum and Dad I will take on a full time job. it could really help their family get a house or them for the future.
i'm just saying that some jobs are too big for young children to take on. sorry i'm trying to be clear here. Some jobs are too big for kids to take on especially for extended periods of time. yay?
I never said that these kids have to work, I was comparing them to those children who are forced to.
I'm just saying that if a child wants to, I don't see why they can't as long as there are protections in place for them like they do in the entertainment industry.
Yep. We should all have four year olds working for us mate. True.. this guy...
shareSeriously?? What gives?
I'm not saying children should be forced to work. My OP to this topic was asking if we would feel the same way about the kids who are forced to work in sweatshops if they actually weren't forced and had the same protections that are afforded to the children who work in hollywood. I only asked that because the OP was talking about children working in textile factories which doesn't happen in the first world and hasn't for many, many years.
NO CHILD SHOULD BE FORCED TO WORK!! Acting or any other form of work.
If a child would like to do some of these "fun employment" opportunities I don't see why they should not be allowed to while following proper guidelines. I hope that is clear for you now.
yeh but is it fun for every one. or do you just think the ones that its not fun for is like sacrifice?
sharei'm just saying that it should be fun for everyone.. and if other people want two year olds working for them... no that sounds friggen stupid. Hollywood is completely different.
sharemaybe the kids should work less... than 3 hours a day... less days...
sharejust too see if you put that into perspective did you recognise how ridiculous that sounded?
sharebut we all know, hollywood is completely ridiculous, isn't it darling?
shareand i bet others bitch when some parents buy a family home with the money. there is nothing wrong with that.
i would say it could either be good or bad depending on the support around you and the crew you are working with.
like anything really.
i just think its a lot of pressure on children. even people judging parents on what they do with their pay checks.
its a bit much isn't it?
i know the conditions are a lot better but what if they are like 5 or even 10 and are in a mind set that they work for a pay check all day every day. thats a lot. i would say that doesn't happen often. thats a lot of work for a kid. i'm not talking about teenagers who can handle a bit of work.
shareAn actor who is 5 can't work for more than 3 hours a day.
Compare that to the sweat shops that I was talking about in my original post.
Does it matter? i dunno... I wouldn't want to work in a sweat shop all day as a kid, especially as a young child. I probably wouldn't want to work on a movie set either as a young child, not all the time day in and day out. just opinions
shareAnd it's naive to believe they would actually do that. Yes, maybe only 3 hours of shooting every day. But that doesn't count the hours they do memorizing the lines, practicing gestures and face expressions, etc. Probably doesn't count for make ups and doing nothing waiting the turn to shoot.
I imagine it would be impossible to make a movie starring kids in prominent roles with just 3 hours tops from the time they arrive on the studio till they get home like what counted as 8 work-hours of an office worker.
for some people it might..
shareHave you ever been on a movie set? Also how many movies star a 5 year old? I'm not saying that they dont exist, but they certainly are not the norm.
They can do a lot with the camera. That's why a lot of kids who are in horror movies dont know they are. Most of the time with a young kid, if you dont see them on camera, they arent there for that shot. If a kid is a main character they will also have stand ins for them, so they can get more done. If it's a close up of someone else's face having a conversation with the kid, the kid is probably in school or at home for that part.
Generally speaking if the kid is only in a few scenes and they have the locations available, they will get those scenes shot right away. A lot of directors dont even like working with kids because of all the rules.
I'm not saying that it's perfect, but those who are endangered because of it, are most likely not put in that position on set.
yeh fair enough
sharekids don't work in other industries in the Western World. its just an observation. of course to every rule there is exceptions.
shareI don't have an answer as to why it's allowed in Hollywood, but I can tell you why most respectable companies would never think of hiring a child in the first place.
Because kids are a massive liability.
I mean there are jobs kids could do, say for example ripping tickets at a movie theater. But if that same kid slips and falls in the bathroom and cracks his head open, the company will probably end up bankrupt.
Especially when the underwear is missing. Yet Hollywood keeps hiring them. Weird.
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