Looks like we've just had our first troll attack! We all knew they would come, and I had been anticipating it and had already put IP-banning measures in place. I view it as a sign that our site is growing and attracting more attention, which is a clear positive.
We are now looking for a small team of moderators, one or two from each major timezone, to help keep the trolls at bay. As I've stated before, freedom of speech is truly important to our community, but clear and obvious trolling will not be tolerated.
If you're interested in becoming a MovieChat moderator, please reply directly to this post and let me know.
Note: We're looking for established members with a long posting history. No new members or members with only a few posts will be considered at this time.
UPDATE: Thanks for everyone's interest. We will be contacting candidates shortly at the email address associated with your MovieChat account. If you don't have an email associated with your account, please add one, or alternatively drop me a line at [email protected] stating your username here. Thanks!
I don't think there are any universal standards for what constitutes trolling or not. This is dependent on the values, goals and tastes of the online community. Broadly speaking, trolling is any activity that would be harmful (overall) to the interests of the board in the long run.
This could be in terms of:
a) Making 'unacceptably' disrespectful remarks towards one or more fellow posters.
b) Making 'unacceptably' disrespectful remarks towards some entity (in this case, film or person) that would hurt fellow posters
c) Use of language or images that are 'unacceptably' inappropriate on the board.
d) Misusing features (e.g. Sending too many PMs, reporting everything, registering under multiple accounts) of the board when not warranted
I have been a moderator on various boards for the past 15 years, and I have found the word "unacceptably" to be helpful. You have to give some latitude to the types of comments that can be permitted, but some comments clearly do not conform to the implicit standards of a board and have to be deleted. I have been on boards in which the expectation was to delete even a single post containing a swear word, and other boards which deleted nothing unless if was unrelated pornographic or spam content. What constitutes as "unacceptable" depends on what most of the community (and potential new members) can tolerate or not.
For instance, a post like: "That actor is f*cking scum and needs to die," could be considered to be unacceptable in some places and not in others. Even if the poster did not make the post with the intention of getting a negative reaction, it can cause a lot of distress to fellow posters (if they are not thick-skinned).
I am not sure you can "define" the degree of the post's severity in order for it to be deleted. This is something that the mods need to discuss actively (on a case-by-case basis when possible, in a mod forum) in the beginning when the community is small. After a while, it is becomes more-or-less implicitly clear to all mods on what they should look out for, and even users (by trial-and-error) roughly understand the type of post of post that will be deleted (versus not). It is a really a fine balance between keeping the majority of existing users happy (depending on their level of sensitivity), and new users not pissed enough to leave. With time, the new users also get used to the board's implicit posting guidelines.
Not moderators, not automoderation but guidelines. This should be the entire goal of any censorship here.
If a post gets many reports filled against it because the community feels it doesn't follow these guidelines then some sort of look at the post with a diverse set of moderation eyes should happen.
If the post is fine and the user is reported often then those doing the reporting should be looked into.
Some warnings and a ban from a collective of varied moderators who have discussed the issue on multiple occasions is as far as any access to power or responsibility should go.
Leave people alone and let the thin skinned learn to stay away from discussions they can't handle by using an ignore feature.
This thread alone is a great warning as to why moderation would be a terrible choice for MovieChat.
If I wanted idiots with a power complex in charge I would have gone to IMDB 2.0 or elsewhere.
Sentences like this one, trolling or not, should be at least deleted by mods. Even if the poster who wrote it wasn't a troll at all. He/she doesn't even have to receive a warning for trolling from the mods for writing this, but the sentence itself looks like something that has no place on a civilized board.
I think moderating a board and asking someone to behave is very hard, as I have been told people don't like being policed, or mothered. So you have to be careful and be balanced too. It's not easy.
And make sure to link to AngryMan53's profile.
We just got a recent update to the site, but someone said the notifications were not working for him. So jim might accidentally overlook your post here.
Cool, so everything is in order. The person who said that notifications weren't working for him/her was probably talking about losing old notifications.
The Cavalry is coming! Be not afraid, good people of MovieChat!
We're getting pummeled out there, but we will never surrender! *explosion in distance*
... Oh, don't worry. That was from our side... I better go check that out just in case when we're done here.
Right, back to the point: we are in need of reinforcements! The only requirements are that you have a decent posting history, an open mind, and devotion to this site. Long live King Jim!
š¶šµWill you join in our crusade?
Who will be strong and stand with me?
Beyond the barricade
Is there a world you long to see?
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of free forums?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be trolled again!
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes!šµš¶
IN SHORT: Jim is still looking for mod volunteers. If you are at all interested, please apply below (either to my post or Jim's original post). If you already applied, but haven't heard back from Jim, be patient; he's still re-reviewing applicants. You may throw your name once more if you so desire. You don't need to provide any personal information other than time zone, nor do you need to be online 24/7 (unless you wish to). If you prefer your main account to remain incognito, Jim can create a secondary mod account for you as he did for me. We could really use your help!
Oh, and I am completely serious about my responsibilities. I just thought a fun, dramatic post would attract more attention. š
Okay, I have no idea who you are (Jim? a newly appointed mod?), but if you're aware that the cavalry is in need of coming, and the utterly stupid explosions that have occurred here for the past two weeks, and are willing and able to take *concrete* actions to rid this otherwise outstanding site of the infestation of trolls (without being *overly* zealous, but at the same time astute and aware), I'm all for you.
My life's too much in chaos to volunteer, although I would like to help and give back to Jim and MC. Sorry, I feel bad about it, but that's just the way it is.
I like the idea of incognito mods because there's NO WAY any mods here won't be targeted by trolls. It'll happen no matter what, sure as night follows day, as they say.
We have been doing our best to deal with the existing trolls. Batman6 and AngryMan53 are finally being dealt with, but they used many IPs, so it is still a work in progress. We're also looking into the recent Trending bar abuse.
If you don't have the time or inclination to be a mod, the best you can do is keep reporting offensive posts as you see them; that really does help!
Batman6 and Angryman were the least of the problems here. Annoying to many, sure, but easily dealt with by the ignore button. Trollers such as these two were and are NOT the problem. It's the real trolls that need to be dealt with, and very, very soon.
Some of us are being patient and biding our time to see if action is going to be taken, but it's wearing thin. Others have already silent left -- good posters, valuable posters. I don't want to see this happen, and I doubt either you (whoever you are) and Jim do either. But people are only willing to be patient for so long, know what I mean?
The real trolls mask their IPs and use various other means to attempt to make themselves untrackable. One of them even posted here about how he does it, and then deleted the evidence.
I've reported a few outlandishly offensive posts, but so far as I've seen nothing has been done about them, or those who posted them, so at this point it seems like a waste of time :/
I realize you, Mod1, have just started, and the last thing I want to do is to be discouraging. Only to be truthful about how a number of us are feeling, and why.
Thanks, Styx. I only hope this gets dealt with soon and effectively so we can get back to talking film and shows, and enjoying this site like we did before things began getting out of hand.
I hope so, Styx, I wish the new mods all the best of luck. All of this is a bunch of bull -- you know it as well as I do. Who'd have ever thought a site designed for folks to chat about movies and TV shows would attract such a--holes? Or maybe that's why. Maybe they think these subjects attract a lot of attention in general, and that's why they're here.
Whatever the reason, they need to be gotten rid of, and the sooner the better.
Yep, that's exactly why the trolls come to forums...especially film/TV one's...they know they're busy and can irritate the crap out of people and gain a lot of attention.
The trending bar has already improved a great deal, so I know the mod we have so far, is doing a fine job of cleaning house here. I salute him/her and also wish all of them, that we get, the best of luck! ššš
Thank you for your input. I do realize that the two I mentioned aren't the worst, but many people have been complaining about them.
It's quite easy to see who has been messing with their IPs. We're dealing with it the best we can.
What posts/posters have you reported that haven't been dealt with yet? If you provide a link here, I'll look at it as soon as I can, otherwise I will continue going through the reports one by one until I find it.
Thanks, Mod1. I appreciate your responsiveness. There were people complaining about those two, but there have been far more people complaining about and even leaving as a result of the real destructive trolls. No one's said they were leaving, or are considering leaving, as a result of Batman6 or Angryman.
If we had a PM system here, I'd be happy to give you a list of the obvious trolls, and make an attempt to locate the without-any-question offensive posts I reported. But since we don't, I'll just say the obvious trolls *are* obvious, and as of yesterday, were still here, posting.
Hopefully you simply haven't yet gotten to the posts I've reported.
Alright. I'll just keep going through the reports and hopefully find it soon!
Also, if you happen to be referring to "Troll", we have started dealing with them as well.
I agree that a PM system would be extremely useful, and I'll put a word in to Jim. He said he was working on some updates for the site.
Thanks very much, Mod1. "Troll" is a new poster. There are many others who are far more problematic, and should be dealt with quickly at this point because they've more than shown themselves for who and what they are, although I appreciate your dealing with that poster.
I agree a PM system is important and useful. Thanks for putting in a word to Jim about it. I did the same a while back, before all of this sh!t hit the fan in an overt way. I realise he has much *more* than he needs on his plate already, and is trying his best to prioritize.
I just don't want to see good people leave this site because too little is being done to deal with the obvious problems. *I* don't want to leave, nor do I want to see other good people leave as a result of trollers taking control and abusing this site, or its users.
I am glad to see Jim assigned anonymous Mod accounts, because there's no way you guys won't be attacked by them. ā¦ Coming soon to a movie house or drive-in near you.
I might know who you're talking about now... I'll just keep looking anyway. Do you happen to remember when you reported those posts? The reports come up by date, most recent first.
Of course the last thing I want is people leaving due to trolls, and we are doing whatever we can to deal with problems as they come to light.
I don't see how you could not know whom I'm talking about, LOL! It's primarily one person with numerous accounts. He or she has publicly announced this. I have a screenshot to prove it, as do others, as I understand, although it was obvious even before said public announcement.
As I recall, I only started reporting the posts 2-3 days ago.
"Of course the last thing I want is people leaving due to trolls, and we are doing whatever we can to deal with problems as they come to light."
Glad to hear it, and I suspected that was the case. Also glad to hear it's easy for you to see who's masking or otherwise trying to hide their IPs. That by itself should give you a good clue as to who's trolling, and who isn't, and who should be eliminated (along with their posting history).
There is not currently a place to put that, but I did suggest it to Jim. Most of the posts so far are obvious enough. And we do still need official rules, which are in the works.
Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait stop right there! Listen!
We have to be careful about removing posts when there are no official rules which could be broken by users here.
Sure links to illegal activities such as file sharing or streaming copyrighted material can easily be removed under the laws of the country in which the servers are located. Same for for other questionable material which might have people charged for hosting or linking to it - but words alone?
This place was sold as a place for free speech and people joined on the good faith that it would be. I'm sure people will happily adhere to rules and conditions of use but deleting/censoring without stating what is against these unwritten rules seems a step draconian.
For example Catbookss made a post about "A spade's a spade" which I could infer as being incredibly racist. Others might not see it as such. Without any rules to say what is acceptable and what is not all material or no material should be censored and that's a slippery slope with regards to something as important as appreciation of art and conversation - something which goes back millennia.
Let's not be too hasty removing posts with the word "Cunt" in it whilst allowing racist terms to stay up until people all know what is expected of them here and what most certainly is not.
Yes, we know to be careful. Official rules are on their way, I assure you.
On the subject of calling a spade a spade... I saw that whole debacle. Personally, I think it was an innocent comment. Most people probably aren't aware of all the connotations. No need to go off on a rail, calling them worse things when they were only being civil to you.
Thanks for the reply Moderator1, I'll have to disagree with your interpretation of casual racism when used in the context of what is considered offensive and why people should be banned for presumed offense for not conforming to a worldview which was seemingly blind to cultural nuances but still thought it could impose colonial rule over linguistic heritage whilst no effective guidelines or rules were in place to warrant such a judgement.
Abuse of the reporting system should be something to consider within the terms of service here.
I'm open to exploring this topic further if facts can be produced but when I last left it an apparently psychic member was speaking on behalf of the supposedly silent without being elected to do so.
I don't think that's very democratic (Or adult) but I have confidence that my observations will be verified soon enough.
Thanks! Your work is much appreciated :). I know it's something of a thankless job and it's inevitable you'll get a lot of flack no matter what, which is too bad. At least Jim didn't hang you (and the other mods, whomever they may be) out to dry as targets of trolls. An excellent decision.
Mod1...Joe is still posting his usual profanity on The Sandbox and Politics board too. He's just done a couple posts so far but it's only a matter of time before he floods it out again. You should definitely keep an eye on him.
I agree with that poster that this account should be terminated, along with its (verified by the user himself! I have screenshots to prove it) other socks.
There are safeguards in place to prevent mods from abusing their power. Jim is logging all of the mods' actions, so if a bad mod does slip in, he will deal with it accordingly. No need to worry.
"There are safeguards in place to prevent mods from abusing their power. Jim is logging all of the mods' actions, so if a bad mod does slip in, he will deal with it accordingly. No need to worry."
I'm not worried, but reassured that comments I've made have been listened to.
Can Jim do something to make the ignore feature better? The people we ignore can still read and reply to our posts and when they do reply, we're getting notifications about it. That should not be happening. š
Also Moderator1, you have posts listed in your profile which aren't visible to general members. I'm guessing that they are made in a private moderator forum area. If you could have Jim disassociate them from your regular posts profile nobody will be any the wiser as to what quantity of threads you've created within your role as moderator here.
Nothing that needs to be rushed but it will reduce attention from what they could be about.
Yes, they are from the moderator forums, very observant of you. You see, the problem was originally that the mod forum wasn't completely private, people could sneak on via profile posts, so Jim quickly solved that by making sure posts in the mod forum wouldn't appear on our profiles. It isn't that big of a deal that the numbers don't quite match up, but once he has time perhaps he'll fix it.
Hi Mod1, i was just wondering how do you deal with reported post, do you just delete them and let the poster post again after blacklisting them, or do you give a warning to ban them if repeated, or review them to take further action ?
1 more question, does mods have power to ban users, or you just report back to Jim with proper evidence and he takes the final action?
It all depends on the post, of course. Some of them are false alarms. Some we delete. Sometimes we ban IPs (yes, mods can do this). We don't have a warning system in place yet. Those we ban are pretty obvious trolls in most cases. There is a private mod forum that we can use to discuss questionable cases as well.