Socialism is a scare word they've hurled at every advance the people have made. Socialism is what they called public power, social security, deposit insurance, and independent labor organizations. Socialism is their name for anything that helps all people.
—Harry Truman, October 10th 1952,
U.S. President April 12, 1945 – January 20, 1953
Socialism is the attempt to abolish the exploitation of workers. To give the power to the working class instead of a tiny group of parasitic oligarchs. To improve the quality of life for everyone by raising the standards of living. To give everyone the economic freedom to pursue their dreams and flourish. And one day maybe to eliminate scarcity and create a world where all your material needs are provided for at no cost. A world where you work because it gives your life meaning. Where money is no longer currency, and instead, reputation is the currency. Where doing something that benefits society is what makes you rich and gives you status and prestige. And the only life that's considered poor is one wasted on apathy.
This is the kind of society that's presented in shows like Star Trek: TNG and shows like The Orville. We can achieve such a world if we have the will, the courage, and imagination to do it. You just need to realize that we can do better than capitalism.
Well said ... the US Congress got it all 100% totally wrong when they voted today to condemn socialism.
It shows both their ignorance, and their parasitic submission to the oligarchic ruling class who has both definitions of socialism and capitalism wrong.
Here is a video of a brilliant speaker, Thomas Frank, talking about one of his best books, "The Wrecking Crew: How Conservatives Rule" ... from 11 years ago. The problems have only gotten worse.
https://youtu.be/yoG7J3r9Bqc?t=44
Indeed, here is a very revealing comment from 1928, nearly a century ago from the President of the US Chamber of Commerce ( under U.S. President Calvin Coolidge ).
https://youtu.be/yoG7J3r9Bqc?t=655
"The best public servant is the worst public servant" ... from all the way back in 1928. This, and the rest of Frank's presentation shows us Americans how little clue we really have about what these so-called Conservative are really about.
The point is that talented people have to be kept out of government at all costs, because if government works well for the people, the people will demand more of it..
If you have a brain and think about that for just a few seconds, it means that the people who run America are dedicated to destroying both democracy and government in so far as government helps or serves the people.
The are scores and scores of insights into the Conservative movement and what their aims and tactics are in "The Wrecking Crew: How Conservatives Rule".
Personally, I believe socialism is a good thing, but what Conservatives have brainwashed us to think is that socialism is evil, when socialism was really the system of how America used to run and provided prosperity for the majority of Americans, the largest middle class in history up until the mid-1970s - and used to be called capitalism,
and that what we have now that Conservatives call capitalism, which is killing the middle class, and democracy, and which is really oligarchy and corporatist fascism, is all to save us from socialism.
Why has it taken so long for people to understand this when they see the negative results of it every day.
All Excellent points. And Thomas Frank is great. His book 'Listen Liberal' is a must read.
The reason the people of this country have such a poor understanding of socialism (and communism) is because they were subjected to a 100 years of anti-socialist (and anti-communist) propaganda. All the achievements of communists and socialists in America have been erased from history.
And like you said, capitalism too, is not really well understood by the people either, because it's not examined critically.
In the end, capitalism cannibalizes itself. And we are now in the end stage of capitalism. At this stage we have corporate capture of our society and government. The corporations use their wealth and power to buy and influence the government by funding the campaigns of politicians who work for their interests. Then those politicians create laws, and over time, a system, that gives those corporations more and more power, wealth, and control over the society and government. Then the corporations use that wealth and power to control the society and government. And round and round she goes, creating a positive feedback loop that sends our system and society into a death spiral, ultimately leading to collapse of both.
Capitalism also commodifies everything, including people and the environment, to collapse or exhaustion.
The reason people don't do anything is because they are kept ignorant. They know that everything is fucked up, but don't understand why.
We are also kept divided by the ruling class, because they know that if we organized, we would have the power to overthrow them. But instead our culture has been taken over by Wokies and woke capitalism, where we are constantly focused on people's identity. This naturally causes division, resentment, and strife. This is why I hate the Wokerati with a burning passion. They are the obstacle to solidarity among the working class.
The Wrecking Crew is a much better and more effective book than Listen Liberal.
Wrecking Crew is pretty much the only Non-Fiction political book I've ever read that is more relevant and important over a decade after it came out than it was when it was published. It is an amazing accomplishment.
By the time he wrote LL he was already feeling the effects of the reaction to The Wrecking Crew and he was not invited on many TV shows for interviews, and the book was not promoted as much as his earlier books. It's safe to say that Tom Franks has been banned from TV and American media because he is an effective communicator and educator about what has infected and sickened this country.
> But instead our culture has been taken over by Wokies and woke capitalism, where we are constantly focused on people's identity.
Thomas Frank is the wokiest or woke, nothing wrong with being aware, particularly if you are an educated intellectual who can explain it in political and historic context.
But I can see by this remark that you are an unaware, sleeping, brainless idiot who cannot grasp the simplest concept even when it is spoon-fed to you. Sorry I wasted my time to respond to your brainwashed idiocy. You are part of the problem.
Both books are great.
I would also recommend books by Chris Hedges. He is an award winning journalist and a prolific writer. He is also a socialist. He gives the best analysis of the problems plaguing our society, and a great explanation of the corporate capture of our system.
I can see by you throwing a tantrum like a child, that you are likely an unhinged Wokie.
Thomas Frank is not woke. He criticizes the wokeness of liberals. He and many other leftists understand that leftism is about class and not identity. The constant obsession and glorification of identity, diversity, representation, and equity has reached peak absurdity. The Wokerati function like a cult, where LGBTQ people are the saints and nobles that must be venerated and worshiped all the time. Slavery is the original sin that we must all feel guilty about and constantly atone for. And racism is the ultimate evil that must be defeated at all costs and should be our primary focus. It is the mission of every Wokester to lecture everyone about their privilege and to virtue signal how anti-racist and woke they are. Anyone who isn't pious enough will be attacked by the other deranged members of the woke cult. And anyone who doesn't fully subscribe to woke orthodoxy will be excommunicated from the cult.
The Wokerati are a collection of deranged cultish degenerates that are standing in the way of class solidarity.
Their ultra-tribalistic and insular nature along with their hyper-polarizing rhetoric makes them so repulsive to the average working class person, that working class people would rather vote for an unhinged orange charlatan rather than associate with them and their ideology.
The Wokerati are the lowest form of life... Lower than pond scum.
Wokeness is cancer that poisons everything.
Two Commies discussing their religion. Instead of climate apocalypse it's capitalist apocalypse. Poverty for All!
shareSay what homie?
What you talkin' 'bout Willis?
I see from post count you're fairly new here
I've seen many of your posts make some very articulate and thoughtful points .
Just bear in mind the right wing militants on this page (about 60% of its population) will label anything short of their "money-is-god , democrats are satan"ideals as
commie bullshit ,
bread and tractors
slackers looking for a handout
all liberals are pedos
ad infinitum
and any discussion will RAPIDLY degenerate into "your a nazi" being yelled by both sides.
Godwins Law works at hitherto unheard of speeds on this page .
so for the sake of your sanity keep a mental distance from these inane rantings and dont make to much effort to correct / discuss / call out patently obvious insane conspiracy theories as your thoughts will be falling on brainwashed closed ears.
Yeah, I signed up a while ago, but I haven't been posting that long. Just a few months I think. So far, I like it here.
Thank you for taking the time to read some of my posts, and thank you for the kind for words, I'm glad you found some of them interesting.
As far as politics, it's so true, I get shit from both sides. As a socialist, I will get shit from all the ignorant right wingers who don't even have a clue about what socialism is or what it means. They will throw out retarded terms like "Cultural Marxist" because they heard some other right wing dunderhead use it, even though that term makes no sense with respect to actual Marxism.
And then there are the Democratic party loyalists — another collection of retards defending the corporate status quo.
The worst part is the hyper-tribalistic thinking; If you say anything positive about conservatism, inevitably some left wing retard will come along to call you a Trumper, and like you pointed out, if you say anything critical of capitalism, right wing dunderheads will call you a Democrat. It's like they can't comprehend the notion that you are not part of either group. I am not a Democrat or a Republican. I hate the 2 party duopoly.
What makes it even worse is, I am far left wing on economics (socialist), but I am not on the cultural left. I despise the woke cult and their obsession with identity, diversity, and inclusion, so I don't really fit in anywhere. I'm politically homeless.
As for interacting with the waterheads, I appreciate the advice, you are almost certainly right. Having said that, I do enjoy slaying simple minded retards on the internet. I might even go as far as saying, it's my favorite pastime.
But it certainly helps when I have thoughtful people like yourself to balance it out.
Wokeness is nothing but another BS Right-wing fart, soon to blow away in their gasbag winds. But you go ahead and sniff it all you want.
shareComplete and utter nonsense.
shareBut you love the smell ya fart young smeller ya.
shareThis is your comeback? Really?
I'm beginning to suspect that I'm speaking to a waterhead. Is that what is happening here Trent? Are you a waterhead? Because you sure sound like one.
How are you not embarrassed?
Live shamed, Die empty.
You don't deserve any more consideration. I've explained my point of view, and all you do is to repeat your tenets ... not to enagage or refute anything I said with facts.
Indeed most things when you address my actual statements you've agreed with me on. Then you take back off into never-never land.
I equate that metaphorically with you in love with your own shit and not being able to grow or understand others points of view.
You are arguing against a strawman.
It's true we agree on many things, but it was you who started being disrespectful the moment I said something that goes against your woke orthodoxy. It is clear you are just a tribalistic hyper-partisan maniac incapable of considering views different than your own.
I'm simply treating you the way you deserve to be treated.
Act like a bitch, get smacked like a bitch.
> I can see by you throwing a tantrum like a child, that you are likely an unhinged Wokie.
If you add that up and assume I am an "unhinged wokie" because I don't believe that woke is an issue, then you have no clue.
Woke was a concept from very long ago. Mentioned in the 1970's but there are references to its use before that. It means being conscious of other peoples' stuggles and oppression, being politically aware, empathetic. If you accept the use of that term as the Right-wing uses it, you are allowing yourself to be a useful idiot.
The idea may be occasionally exaggerated or misused, but what pisses me and should anger any human being that believes in justice and democraacy is Republicans who take every word or phrase from Liberals or oppressed people and use their volume control in the media to twist it into something bad.
When you accept that and use it in the same way, you are just as bad, in fact even worse because you are unaware of being manipulated and used. Dare I say it ... wake the F up!
The Political Scene Podcast
What Does “Woke” Mean, and How Did the Term Become So Powerful?
For many on the right, the problems America faces mostly stem from “wokeness,” a word that means . . . what? David Remnick talks with a linguist of slang to unpack the power of a word.
https://www.newyorker.com/podcast/political-scene/what-does-woke-mean-and-how-did-the-term-become-so-powerful
AUDIO: 16 minutes
Wrong. That was what "Woke" used to mean. Language evolves over time and that is no longer the way the word is used today. It used to mean an awareness of injustice, however, today it has a pejorative connotation. It refers to people who are overzealous about the fight for social justice (Social Justice Warriors). There is a difference between advocates for social justice and Social Justice Warriors; Woke SJWs are sanctimonious, hyper-moralizing, virtue-signaling cultists. They are obsessed with identity, diversity, inclusion, representation, and equity. Their views are so extreme that they often lead them to absurd conclusions. They are repulsive to any normal human being.
The word "Woke" is now an umbrella term for a constellation of ideas relating to extreme culturally left wing ideology. It is a difficult word to pin down because it's a nebulous term with fuzzy boundaries. Having said that, this is my definition of "woke" in the context of media:
Woke:
1) The obsession with, and glorification of, identity, diversity, inclusion,
and equity to the point of absurdity.
2) Pandering to minorities.
3) giving special treatment based on identity.
4) Excessive veneration of LGBTQ people and minorities and denigration of white cis heterosexual males.
This definition captures, for the most part, the way the word is used today by people who criticize "wokeness" in the entertainment industry.
Basically if you sound like you spend all your time in the racial/gender studies department of academia, then you are probably woke.
As for criticism of woke ideology, right wingers are not the only ones who are critical of it. There are many on the left who are just as critical of this deranged ideology. Genuine leftists recognize the corrosive nature of this ideology and understand that it's obsession with identity to the exclusion of class, makes it a detriment to the left.
Wokeness is cancer.
💥💯
share🔟✔🅰➕
shareSee, I told you that you were a phony right-wing nutcase.
shareNo, I'm actually a far left wing socialist. But to a hyper-tribalistic simple minded Wokester, whose mind has been warped by woke ideology, it is inconceivable that one could disagree with something on the left and still be left. Anyone who doesn't conform to woke orthodoxy is excommunicated from the woke cult, and anyone who isn't in the woke cult must by definition be a right winger. This is your brain on wokeness.
You are what is wrong with politics and culture.
Wokeness is cancer that poisons everything.
> No, I'm actually a far left wing socialist.
Maybe that is true, I don't know.
All I can say for sure is that you are troubled and incoherent, probably caused by exposure to Right-wing BS.
When you look at whatever woke is supposed to mean it is miniscule on every level.
When you then take a look at the conformity Republicans demand it is on the order of the Taliban totalitarianism.
That is so obvious that to miss it or deny it shows something seriously wrong with whatever you interpretation of Left or Socialism is.
One example would be thing exaggeration of CRT, Critical Race Theory, and how it is branded, with your help, as anti-American. CRT is about teaching all history from all points of view. If you find something wrong with that - you are the one censoring and intolerant, not CRT.
All I can say for sure is that you are troubled and incoherent, probably caused by exposure to Right-wing BS.
And just for context, since I've mentioned that I primarily consume left wing content, I thought I'd give you some actual examples. This way, not only will you get an idea of where I'm coming from, you might also learn something and therefore won't come of sounding like an ignorant retard.
Scheer Post
https://scheerpost.com/
Black Agenda Report
https://www.blackagendareport.com/
Common Dreams
https://www.commondreams.org/
Counter Punch
https://www.counterpunch.org/
GrayZone
https://thegrayzone.com/
Jacobin
https://jacobin.com/
Glenn Greenwald
https://glenngreenwald.substack.com/
Matt Taibbi
https://www.racket.news/?utm_source=discover
---YouTube---
Chris Hedges Report
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhvPB4lyc4dTYddugVNduk4TEtC0EXeaw
Jimmy Dore
https://www.youtube.com/user/TYTComedy/videos
Revolutionary Blackout Network
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV_q52WAPdc90WudBqyGSFw
Kyle Kulinski - Secular Talk
https://www.youtube.com/user/SecularTalk/videos
Diem25
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnMk-6Brd8rVEKWSWkwsWUg/videos
Bad Faith Podcast
https://www.youtube.com/c/BadFaithPodcast/videos
Consortium News
https://www.youtube.com/@consortiumnews8744/videos
theres two types of socialists, 1. the 99% of socialists the 19 year old student who has all the best intentions in the world, protesting, wanting something more "just", marx called them "useful idiots, digging their own graves.
then theres the 2nd type, the 1% of socialists who actually get it, and they know its about chaos, poverty and destruction.
1. you tax about 35% of the country in order to pay for things 100% of the population need, it's not sustainable, so more taxes, business leaves, goes to china, india.... and with them their jobs.
2. then without anyone to pay taxes for your utopia you end up printing money, so theres inflation.
3. theres poverty, but the beauty of socialism is poor people, poor thanks to socialism will ironically vote for more and more because well they're poor and want handouts.
4. society begins to collapse, all the things promised that you had for a while are at breaking point (see the UK)
5. arrives the great reset, because marx or whoever said it was correct, "socialism is the road to communism"
in other words, socialism will f-ck you so hard you'll end up accepting anything in the name of security.
you're not a socialist because you've sat there and thought about it economically and based on past lessons, you're a socialist because you're only goal is be NICE.
every example of socialism has given us failure, poverty and ignorance, and yes, i've heard the old "but it's never been implemented!" before.
time to grow up
Fowlboy ... I'll take Harry Truman's understanding over a brainwashed teenage loser who spends all his time trolling on social media.
shareWow, your ignorance is truly astounding. It takes real talent to get literally everything wrong. I wish I could help you see the error of your ways, but that would be like teaching calculus to someone who doesn't understand arithmetic. I simply don't have the time nor the patience to educate you. So, I'll just leave you with some advise: Go read Prof. Richard Wolff's (Marxian economist) books and educate yourself:
Understanding Socialism
https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Socialism-Richard-D-Wolff/dp/0578227347
Understanding Marxism
https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Marxism-Richard-D-Wolff/dp/0359467024
Then go watch some of his lectures on economics and the history of socialism and communism in different countries.
The lectures are available for free on YouTube, and the books you could get on РіrаtеВау if you don't want to pay for them.
Go educate yourself so that you don't come off sounding like a simple minded dunderhead.
Wow, your ignorance is truly astounding. It takes real talent to get literally everything wrong. I wish I could help you see the error of your ways, but that would be like teaching calculus to someone who doesn't understand arithmetic. I simply don't have the time nor the patience to educate you. So, I'll just leave you with some advise: Go read Prof. Richard Wolff's (Marxian economist) books and educate yourself:
There is nothing hypocritical about being economically left wing but not on the cultural left. This is actually very common in Europe and South America. It is only Americans who are ignorant of socialism and have some warped idea of what socialism is.
As for socialist countries, I too was born in a socialist country. And like any other country there are good things and bad things. The people who hate their country so much so that they leave, are obviously going to be very critical. But only listening to those people will not give you an accurate picture of what is going on. It's selection bias.
"At the end of the day, you are a just another lefty."
You say that like it's a bad thing. It's not.
I too was born in a socialist country.
Socialism is a scare word
"At the end of the day, you are a just another lefty."
You say that like it's a bad thing. It's not.
Than you have just admitted that you are a lying hypocrite.
Socialism is one of the biggest deceptive lies ever created and it has failed for the past two hundred years, but you already know this.
You and two others here on MC are the worst kind since the three of you; play “both sides” of the spectrum...no convictions, no loyalty, and a traitor to all.
Triggered like a lefty….Good!
You are a liar and a hypocrite since you claimed to have lived in a socialist country and yet you are still endorsing and promoting it when history has proven that is has always failed including from personal experience.
Therefore; that makes you anti-American and a treacherous imbecile.
No one here is buying your bullshit.
Triggered? LoL
It seems like the only one triggered here is you. Every time you hear the word "socialism", you become an unhinged maniac, foaming at the mouth like a rabid dog. What happened to facts over feelings snowflake? Just another deranged right wing dunderhead crying like a whiny little bitch.
You are a liar and a hypocrite since you claimed to have lived in a socialist country and yet you are still endorsing and promoting it when history has proven that is has always failed including from personal experience
Your entire argument is nothing but an "insipid drivel" of lies. You are a lefty hypocrite playing both sides and you have been called out.
Once again....no one here is buying your Marxist bullshit.
Dunderhead says what?
You are an ignorant tribalistic hyper-partisan maniac, no better than the unhinged woke degenerates obsessed with identity politics.
"Marxist bullshit"?
You don't even know what that word means you dunderhead.
Now please stop embarrassing yourself. It's hard to watch.
All my comments on this site contradicts your statement.
You on the other hand are still a woke-leftist and a liberal-progressive.
From one of your recent confessions:
Believe it or not I used to be a pretty standard liberal/progressive
https://moviechat.org/tt10278918/Willow/63a3996d0fc3c241e94f73f1/Woke-dumpster-fire?reply=63a664a8a743f33239e44b91
How can I be a woke-leftist and a liberal-progressive when you literally cited a post where I said that I used to be a "pretty standard liberal/progressive, you illiterate fuсk? The statement implies that I am no longer one.
Holy fuсk! Jesus, Marry, and Joseph, can you please think before you post? You are bringing down the level of discourse with your retardation.
It's called "a lying hypocrite".
You are still a liberal-leftist-progressive little bitch, and you will always be one.
It's called basic intelligence. Where your views evolve based on new evidence and a better understanding of the world.
You are still a liberal-leftist-progressive little bitch, and you will always be one.
> 3. theres poverty, but the beauty of socialism is poor people, poor thanks to socialism will ironically vote for more and more because well they're poor and want handouts.
> i've heard the old "but it's never been implemented!" before.
That's no argument, it is a statement based on nothing. It shows
1. Your ignorance.
2. Your bad faith.
3. Your bias toward criminality.
4. Your lack of character.
5. Your unwillingness, and inability to actually debate.
6. Your lack of understanding of history.
7. Your lack of understanding of socialism.
8. Your childish attempt to raise your opinion over Harry Truman's on this issue.
9. Your dedication to dishonesty and overthrowing the American system.
10. That you belong in prison with the rest of the insurgents of January 6th.
and more
Ronald Reagan campaigns for Hubert Humphry in 1948
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJDhS4oUm0M&t=75s
Go watch a hundreds hours of Thomas Sowell on YouToob. You will realize you wasted your life reading Marxism!
shareGod damn f-ing Moviechat ... now putting ads in the middle of the text input box.
You people only mention Sowell because you know he is full of crap, so boring, so ugly and so wrong no one will ever bother to read or listen to him, plus he is your token minority, the complement of Clarence Thomas.
why is he ugly? is it his skin color or his black features?
reported for racism.
Well, aren't you the lover of woke when your feeble excuse for a brain fools you into thinking it wokes in your favor? Pffffttttt! You jump to that conclusion based on your own biases and projections.
https://contemporarythinkers.org/thomas-sowell/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2012/08/t-sowell-intro.jpg
To me, Sowell is unattractive to the point of ugliness. He has permanent greed impressed on his face. All vicious defenders of predatory capitalism are ugly - both inside and out.
Brother Cornell West on the other hand is a beautiful guy.
https://cdn.britannica.com/01/5101-004-F7651536/Cornel-West.jpg
He has open eyes and smiles and doesn't have the hate impression on his facial features like Sowell. He loves all of humanity and believes we all deserve a place on this earth.
it's never about the actual person to you sick people. it's just a black cutout you can project nobility or evil on, all in the service of making you feel superior.
shareInstead of wasting your time on a Neo-liberal right wing token like Sowell, go watch a hundred hours of Prof. Richard D. Wolff, a Marxian economist who actually knows what he's talking about. From him you will gain an understanding of how capitalism functions, and a proper explanation of socialism and Marxism.
shareWolff seems to be very popular ever since the 2008 meltdown when he somehow inherited the Mr. Socialism crown. I don't really care for him or his interpretation of socialism, though he does have some interesting takes on certain issues. The main thing I find untenable about Wolff is that he dismisses the selfish nature of humans. He seems to say that if someone starts a business that the value created MUST be divided equally between the workers and the owners or the workers are being exploited. To me that is more of a communist ideal and does not suit the realities of the present day, if it ever would. He presents these ideas like he is the only one who gets to define socialism - and that is a big part of the problem - what is socialism.
I redefine the issue by saying that all trade and barter are what we call free enterprise; capitalism. Capitalism is the substrate on which all trade and barter is done, and the moral quality is cooperation or conflict. One decides to produce something or sell a servive and they ar free to do decide the terms under which they do it and sell it - within limits of moriality and justice, and that is where democracy comes in. Here is how I put it:
Socialism = Capitalism + Democracy
Fascism = Capitalism - Democracy
In other words it is the taxation and regulation with respect to the population, the "society" that decides the nature of the economy - which is why the world economy today can be called fascist/dysfunctional. The conflict is about the progress of going from a class based power society and economy to a democratic one. In other words, socialism is democracy.
Socialism is about abolishing the exploitation of workers; It's about workers owning the means of production. You seem to have a misunderstanding of what exploitation means. It does not mean that your boss is taking advantage of you because he's bad and/or greedy. As Marx pointed out, the exploitation is inherent to capitalism. Capitalism is based on exploitation. A capitalist hires an employee. An employee uses his labor to make a chair. The capitalist sells the chair for $10. Therefore the chair is worth $10 dollars. But the capitalist can't pay the employee the $10 because there is no benefit for him, so he pays him $5. So the employee gets $5 for $10 of work in order for the capitalist to exist. This is the arrangement. It doesn't even matter if the employee is fine with being exploited (some slaves didn't mind being slaves, they had good masters), but it is exploitation nonetheless. This is what socialism attempts to solve. In the work place, it wants to make every worker an owner and operator of the enterprise so there is no exploitation. In the government, it wants a party that represents the working class, instead of large multi-national corporations.
There are many different ideas about how to implement socialism. Wolff's understanding of Marxism has lead him to the conclusion that at the heart of capitalism is the employer/employee relationship. Just like in feudalism you have the lord/serf relationship, and in slavery you have the master/slave relationship. Wolff believes that the way to get to socialism is to abolish this relationship. And the way he plans on abolishing it is by transforming the workplace into democratically run worker owned co-ops. This would effectively end the exploitation of workers and give the power to the working class. Workers having power in the work place would also result in the workers having more representation in the government. And if you have a government that represents the workers, you effectively have socialism.
> Socialism is about abolishing the exploitation of workers; It's about workers owning the means of production.
Not at all.
Socialism is putting people before the economic system. Period. Socialism is democracy. You cannot say we are a democratic nation or society when our lives depend on the tyranny of corporations and plutocratic ownership and control.
We spend a third of our lives at work, as Noam Chomsky puts it, working under mini tyrannies. If there is not democracy in work - there is no democracy period.
I see the fallacies in all of your arguments, and the corner you've painted yourself into. You're wrong, closed minded and think you know what you're talking about because you can spit out your simpleminded model of socialism.
The only way you can represent the workers economically or socially is democracy, but that doesn't and really cannot include as you state in your primary belief - "It's about workers owning the means of production.".
That's bullshit language that means nothing anyway.
Workers owning the means of production and putting people before the economic system, are not mutually exclusive dummy. The whole point of giving the power to the workers is so that the economic system works for the people and not the other way around.
Also, I've never said that there shouldn't be democracy in socialism. But there are many different kinds of socialisms, and not all of them have a democracy.
In my opinion however, having socialism which just improves people's economic life, but doesn't give them a say in what the government does, is not a socialism I would want to live in. I believe that there's more to life than just economics. There is also freedom. And for freedom you need democracy, so everyone has a say in how the country functions.
I see the fallacies in all of your arguments, and the corner you've painted yourself into. You're wrong, closed minded and think you know what you're talking about because you can spit out your simpleminded model of socialism.
> Workers owning the means of production and putting people before the economic system, are not mutually exclusive dummy.
Don't call me dummy, dummy. not to mention all your other moronic stupidities that you seem to think are so clever.
Oh my, looks like we got an intellectual heavyweight here. What a devastating argument. LOL
Please stop embarrassing yourself, it's difficult to watch. All that insipid drivel you're spewing has reached peak cringe.
Once again:
Live shamed, die empty.
[deleted]