Unions were a very noble and necessary thing for labor back in say the 1930s, but they really don't have a place in today's modern world. Union corruption, protecting incompetent workers, and union membership at all time low points to it coming to an end. Every state and person should have the RIGHT TO WORK
shareUnions for public employees should not exist. Major conflict of interest.
shareStrongly agree. Especially since tax payers often end up locked into long term contracts negotiated between unions and politicians who know they'll be out of office before the big number crunches hit.
shareFear mongering. Why would you want to destroy a path to becoming middle-class or upper middle-class for so many people? I could never understand why Republicans want more people to be poor. Most government pensions are funded.
shareGovernment exists for the sake of citizens, not its own employees. Not only does the fundamentally flawed structure I outlined above frequently result in stress to state budgets (even Democratic governors in states like Rhode Island and Connecticut have tried to emulate Scott Walker's reforms in Wisconsin to varying degrees to loosen the public union stranglehold on the government), crowding out other government spending and hurting poor and middle class people (https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-public-sector-unions-divide-the-democrats?ref=home), but public unions typically make it much harder to fire employees for incompetence or malfeasance than it should be, and they often block much needed reforms. Teachers unions in particular are disgusting, blocking just about any reform to improve education quality and going on strike to demand higher pay at students' expense...despite public school teachers already making more than private school teachers do (and private schools soundly outperform public schools in education quality). Schools certainly should exist for the sake of students, not teachers, but that's not what's resulted from the unions having so much power.
Then there's the inherent corruption involved with forcing tax payers through automatic dues to fund unions that virtually always campaign for Democrat politicians in elections. A built-in, parasitic cash-cow that undermines democracy, freedom, and fairness.
BTW, accusing me of "fear mongering" one sentence before accusing me of wanting to destroy people's path to the middle class and keep populations poor doesn't work, lol. Unions aren't necessary to achieve the middle class and in fact hurt people by destroying jobs, bankrupting states, and squeezing services. Democrats want to keep people poor, because permanent government dependence keeps them hostage voters. That's why most enclaves ruled by Democrats for decades are cesspools trapped in poverty.
Even FDR, one of the most left wing presidents ever, said, "All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations. The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress."
And George Meany, the founding president of the united American Federation of Labor-Congress of Industrial Organizations, wrote "[I]t is impossible to bargain collectively with the government".
The AFL-CIO Executive Council resolved as recently as 1959 that “government workers have no right [to collectively bargain] beyond the authority to petition Congress—a right available to every citizen.”
https://capitalresearch.org/article/government-unions-after-wisconsin/
Employees are citizens. Government employees help run the government.
Prejudice and stereotyping against civil servant workers exist for whatever reason. Just an observation.
Scott Walker's real motivation was political:
"Walker insisted at the time that he wanted to hobble government employee unions for just one reason: to hold down costs on wages, health coverage and pensions. But one of Walker’s top allies, Scott Fitzgerald, the Senate majority leader, let slip a partisan motive behind the law. “If we win this battle, and the money is not there under the auspices of the unions,” Fitzgerald said, “. . . President Obama is going to have a much more difficult time getting elected [in 2012] and winning the state of Wisconsin.” "
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/the-gop-attack-on-american-unions-could-cost-democrats-the-2020-election/2019/08/27/2e5b2992-c465-11e9-b5e4-54aa56d5b7ce_story.html
Walker was defeated by a Democrat because his idea was also harmful to education which created a mass exodus of teachers and a drop in student scores. Private schools perform better with students who are wealthier and from less troubled backgrounds.
Your link had an interesting article link on the bottom titled:
"What Really Made America Great? To a Large Extent, Unions"
https://www.thedailybeast.com/what-really-made-america-great-to-a-large-extent-unions-and-they-can-do-it-again
It basically says that less union participation has created stagnant wages for workers since 1964 while corporate leaders had a 980% wage bump. Less standard of living creates government and societal instability.
The main path to middle-class was union jobs which went overseas and destroyed manufacturing cities across the country. Trump has failed to bring back high-paying factory jobs.
Unions lobby both Republicans and Democrat politicians often at the same time. It depends who holds local power.
Democratic states are wealthier and financially support Republican states' welfare programs through taxes.
I'm pretty sure the quotes are out of context. For instance, "government" likely refers to management and not the worker.
Much of your post was incoherent and certainly failed to address the clear logical arguments in my post (and the clear quotes by FDR and the others) about the fundamental flaws in a democracy having public unions. The Scott Walker quote just underscored what I said, that public unions are often parasitic cash cows funneling tax payer money to Democrat candidates. So yes, eliminating automatic dues would hurt Democrats by making things fairer. Rightly so. Public unions subvert democracy. You didn't think that point through. Of course Walker and other reform-minded office holders, including the Democrats who basically emulated Walker, had other motives as well, like avoiding state bankruptcy.
Walker repeatedly won all the elections about this issue despite national Democrat money and celebrity focus pouring in.
Poor students perform better in private and charter schools too.
Most of the articles on The Daily Beast are garbage. What made the one I linked interesting is that the liberal source ran a piece refuting the liberal narrative.
The USA had a thriving, large middle class long before modern labor unions existed. Private sector unions made labor so expensive that it destroyed jobs (see Rust Belt). Union membership declined because the unionized companies shrank, moved overseas, or went out of business. But I'm not opposed to private unions as long as membership is voluntary, and ballots on unionization are kept secret. I've been criticizing public unions, which are typically destructive on multiple levels.
Wages have largely stagnated in recent years more due to massive immigration, much of it illegal, but the notion that the US standard of living is "less" than in 1964 is too asinine and ignorant for anyone who believes it to speak with credibility on these issues. What's squeezing the middle class are high taxes, insane regulatory burdens, Obamacare, and excessive immigration.
Democratic states are wealthier and financially support Republican states' welfare programs through taxes.
Republicans pay more of the taxes in every state, even the liberal ones. And Republican states have less “welfare” to pay anyway. Due to the state tax exemption (recently limited but not abolished), individuals in liberal states with high state income taxes have been getting away with paying proportionally far less in federal taxes than those in states with low or no income tax. Liberal states have been allowed to funnel their money to their own state projects, not supporting “their fair share” as Democrats put it, while people in conservative states shoulder the burden.
Trump succeeded in bringing back a lot of high-paying manufacturing jobs, especially considering that the country was due for a recession when he took office and GDP growth had slowed to 1.6% by Obama’s final year. How much better off would we be if Trump had taken office in 2009 instead of Obama? Much, much more prosperous and freer.
https://moviechat.org/bd0000082/Politics/5d52ebe902ec295b54e5c251/Trump-boosts-manufacturing-jobs-399-more-in-his-first-26-months-than-Obamas-last-26-months
Provide links to full text re: quotes. Out of context quotes are irrelevant.
"AP FACT CHECK: Blue high-tax states fund red low-tax states
https://www.apnews.com/2f83c72de1bd440d92cdbc0d3b6bc08c
Graph of red-states leeching off of blue states.
https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/posts/2014/05/Slide3/966724856.jpg
Ingrates need to thank Democrats for paying for their food stamps and welfare.
"Poor students perform better in private and charter schools too. "
Private schools have smaller class sizes, more resources, fewer students who are troubled or with disabilities, entrance exams, and expel low performing students to alter performance stats.
Low pay attracts less qualified personnel which is why Alabama's school system is suffering. In my area, the local government did what you want and negotiated a very low salary for new police recruits. It became dangerous for the public because they were less educated and disciplined so they went back to offering higher salaries.
You need to learn the difference between an opinion and fact since your dailybeast link is clearly the former with misinformation. what a hack!
"democracy, freedom, and fairness. "
That's rich coming from someone whose party uses voter suppression and whose president speaks out against freedom of the press and has a Muslim ban.
Unions don't make states poor. My state is doing extremely well economically and has a high percentage of unionized workers and government officials support them. My state also has many industries and cultivates investments, diversified business deals and entrepreneurs.
The poorer states don't know how to attract businesses and investments.
Immigrants keep prices low and make up a large percentage of business owners in my area so they're creating jobs, too.
Trump hired illegals for his businesses. Notice how he never arrests the ones who hire them. What hypocrisy!
Investment Business Daily:
"According to Bureau of Labor Statistics data, roughly 6 million people are unemployed. But 7.3 million jobs are unfilled.
A study by Moody's Analytics concluded that for every 1% increase in immigration, GDP rose 1.15%. That's a 15% return on immigration. Meanwhile, widely referenced economic studies estimate that roughly 10% to 11% of U.S. GDP is supplied by immigrants. Some estimates put the total impact as high as 15% of GDP. At current levels of economic output, even the lower 10% GDP estimate comes out to about $2 trillion a year in added GDP.
"The native-born population and workforce will age and shrink... Without those immigrants, there will be millions fewer workers and taxpayers. And a smaller economy."
The CDC stats for the five states with the highest death rates (all red):
Alabama
Kentucky
Mississippi
Oklahoma
West Virginia
Five states with the lowest death rates (all blue):
California
Connecticut
Hawaii
Minnesota
New York
https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/05/health/highest-death-rates-states-cdc-study/index.html
"The vast majority of the factory jobs have come in counties that were already adding factory employment before Mr. Trump took office. And a disproportionate share of the expansion was concentrated in prosperous areas like Silicon Valley and Houston."
"Trump Is Falling Almost 1 Million Jobs Short Vs. Obama"
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2019/07/05/trump-is-falling-almost-1-million-jobs-short-vs-obama/#404b8328caa7
Ingrates need to thank Democrats for paying for their food stamps and welfare.
"The new Census data on where we live and where we moved to in 2014 shows that the top seven states with the biggest percentage increase in in-migration from other states are in order: North Dakota, Nevada, South Carolina, Colorado, Florida, Arizona, and Texas. All of these states are red, except Colorado, which is purple.
Meanwhile, the leading exodus states of the continental states in percentage terms were Alaska, New York, Illinois, Connecticut, New Mexico, New Jersey, and Kansas. All of these states are blue, except Alaska and Kansas...
In the last decade ending in 2013, 1.4 million more Americans left California than moved into the once-Golden State."
https://www.dailysignal.com/2015/10/09/nearly-1000-people-move-from-blue-states-to-red-states-every-day-heres-why/
Private schools also have more discipline, values, high standards, and more flexibility to innovate and do what works, including firing teachers or paying better ones more.....because they typically aren't unionized. Not being guaranteed government funding forces them to be efficient with resources, which they have to be effective to get.
"In the last 26 months of Obama’s presidency, manufacturing employment grew by 96,000 or 0.8%. In Trump’s first 26 months, manufacturers added 479,000 jobs, or 3.9%, 399% more jobs than Obama’s record......
On the other hand, federal, state and local government jobs, many of them creators of job-stifling red tape, grew by 1.8% in Obama’s last 26 months compared to 0.8% under Trump.
In fact, over the past 26 months, there were 168% more jobs in manufacturing created than in government, while during Obama’s last 26 months, there were 303% more government jobs created than in manufacturing."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2019/03/11/trumps-policy-magic-wand-boosts-manufacturing-jobs-399-in-first-26-months-over-obamas-last-26/#437beaa820a6
Breitbart is your source? No wonder you're wrong. LOL
Of the 32 states that receive more federal dollars than they contribute, 27 states are (84%) are Republican.
Of the 18 states which contribute more than they receive, 14 states are Democratic.
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d956e7c863eb2e127fd7229fba6bfd9f
Most farmers voted Republican and for Trump. Notice how fast they have their hand out for welfare because the Chinese stopped buying their produce thanks to Trump's tariff war.
"Trump should be kissing Obama’s ass. Obama inherited Bush's recession. Took market from 7,000 to 20,000. Unemployment from 8.3% to 4.6%. Consumer confidence from 25.3 to 107.1. Ended the Iraq war. Crippled ISIS and MS-13.
Meanwhile Trump’s trade wars and 1% tax cut threaten economic stability.
When President Obama left office the annual budget deficit was $504 billion. Thanks to Donald Trump and Republicans huge 1% Wall Street tax cut for the rich, the annual budget deficit has soared to over $1 trillion dollars with no corresponding revenue growth.
Looking at jobs and deficits
Reagan: 15M jobs
$79B to $159B
Bush: 2M jobs
$153B to $255B
Clinton: 23M jobs
$255B to $128B surplus
Bush 1.5M jobs
$128B surplus to $1T debt
Obama 12M jobs
1.16T to $585B
Trump 5M jobs
$585B to $1.1T
President Obama took black unemployment from 17% to 7% and Hispanic unemployment from 13% to 5% but Donald Trump tries to fool everyone and take credit.
Not surprising that you're wrong about the states. Most of them are gaining population. Older people tend to retire to states with a warmer climate, but that is being offset by younger people and immigrants moving into places like New York which has increased the population.
Once again, New York and other blue states are still supporting ungrateful poor red states.
Older people tend to retire to states with a warmer climate
Breitbart is your source? No wonder you're wrong. LOL
President Obama took black unemployment from 17% to 7%
As for debt, Trump has a long way to go to catch Obama, though the Democrat House is trying hard to make that happen.
Obama doubled the national debt from $10 trillion to $20 trillion, shattering deficit records in the process. It’s currently around $22 trillion, growing more slowly than under Obama.
Annual Deficit
2008 - $459 billion
*Obama takes office*
2009 – $1.413 trillion (all time record); 9.8% of GDP (most since WW2)
2010 – $1.294 trillion
2011 – $1.300 trillion
2012 – $1.077 trillion
2016 - $585 billion
It largely tapered off because Republicans took Congress, though Obama still left the deficit higher than the one preceding him. By contrast the Trump deficits have been around 3% of GDP.
Like most Americans farmers are happy we finally have a president willing to stand up to China and its decades of one-sided tariffs and abuse against the US. Even Chuck Schumer supports Trump’s effort to leverage down China’s tariffs. If Democrats really cared about improving trade they’d pass the USMCA Trump already negotiated with Mexico and Canada. Why aren’t you chastising them, hypocrite?
Obama turned Frank and Dodd’s recession into prolonged stagnation. Obama’s average quarterly annualized GDP growth was an anemic 1.9% (only 1.6% his final year). He crippled the middle class and drove down median income even several years into the “recovery”. The fed fueled artificial stock market growth off the recession trough bounce but it stalled in his second term. Obama’s withdrawal from Iraq against military advice and feckless handling of Syria (“red line” humiliation) led to the rise of ISIS and his open borders policy encouraged massive illegal immigration, with countless children being abused as pawns to exploit the loopholes Democrats created, and MS 13’s presence in the US swelling.
Obama’s cowardice and incompetence blew up much of the world, creating the biggest refugee crisis since WW2, and almost destroyed America. Trump has given us a chance to save the country and the world. Stronger GDP growth. Historical stock market surge.
Dow Close
12/31 2013 - 16,577
11/8 2016 - 18,333 (1,756 point gain)
*Trump elected*
9/09/19 - 26,836 (8,503 point gain)
So in the last 3 years or so of Obama's presidency the Dow only crept up 1,756 points. From the surge after Trump's election through yesterday, which is less time, the Dow has already increased 8,503 points, almost 5 times as much, despite the Fed raising rates!
Democrats have yet to explain how metrics like GDP growth and stocks strengthened so much as soon as Obama was replaced by Trump.
He’s defeated ISIS, restored US credibility in Syria and elsewhere by cleaning up Obama’s mess, and brought us to energy independence. No wonder consumer and investment confidence surged the day after his election.
Lots of rambling by you. It must be a symptom of your Obama Derangement Syndrome. Seek help.
shareJust posting educational facts. You're the deranged one who makes wild claims you can't back up. To wit, I'm still waiting for you to explain your hilarious comment here:
"The government figures are manipulated. The real present GDP is -2% under Trump."
https://moviechat.org/bd0000082/Politics/5d5618ce406fc27e7f5fa11b/Average-quarterly-GDP-growth-Trump-264-Obama-192?reply=5d56355d406fc27e7f5fa1ce
The ramblings of a mental patient would be best addressed by a good mental health physician.
shareAgreed, LOL.
shareI'm glad you do! I suggest you take your four successive rambling posts to your local psychiatrist pronto. They'll be all the evidence needed to book you into a nice quiet room.
shareI just posted verifiable facts. They'd be more interested in your unsourced claim that "real present GDP" (whatever that means) "is -2% under Trump" and that "the government figures are manipulated."
By whom? The Reptilians?
Thanks for providing all of this detail in support of the argument. It’s clear that public employee unions create irresolvable conflicts of interest because their political activities amount to self-dealing.
shareself-dealing:
Attorney General William Barr booked Trump's DC hotel for $30,000 to host a holiday party for 200 people
https://www.businessinsider.com/william-barr-booked-trump-hotel-holiday-party-report-2019-8
House Democrats investigating Vice President Mike Pence's stay at Trump resort in Ireland
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/09/06/pences-stay-trump-resort-ireland-probed-democrats/2230367001/
"Every state and person should have the RIGHT TO WORK"
... for low pay and few benefits. Many nonunion workers have more than one job because neither pays a living wage.
Unions negotiate a higher salary (22% more), better benefits, protection against unhealthy working conditions and protection against abuse.
A strong union is better than a weak one. I've been in both. I've also worked nonunion.
I'm not sure why anyone would promote "right to work" which is promoting employee exploitation. If you're going to have the benefits of a union, then you pay a few bucks instead of leeching off those who do pay dues.
Unions are necessary with minimum wage being so stagnant while inflation never stagnates. And its not like Trump is rallying against unions. He's buttering them up any chance he gets.
shareHe wants their vote.
shareUnions keep and protect shitty workers employed and cause the cost of goods and business to raise for everyone else.
shareThe Trump trade war is doing that.
shareExample, and I often find it hilarious. You liberals hate Cops. But its the police union which allows unqualified, untrained Cops to stay on the force with no repercussions for their actions. The Unions protect cops that kill unarmed black kids. What say you to that? Mind blown? Your world in ruins?
shareYou didn't address Trump's trade war causing prices to rise.
His desire for low - or worst - negative interest rates will hurt Americans' bank savings and retirees.
We aren't talking about trade wars. We are talking about unions
shareWe were until you mentioned higher consumer prices which are caused by Trump's tariff war.
shareLink where you've criticized Pelosi and Democrats at all for holding up the trade agreement Trump negotiated with Canada and Mexico. Or are you a mindless hypocrite?
Democrats are fine screwing over American workers in their petty desire to deny Trump "a win".
Do you mean when Trump attacked American allies Canada and Mexico while praising ruthless dictators Putin and Kim Jong-un? Or are you referring to the "trade agreement" which is 99.99% the same as the old one but Trump wants to pretend he's doing something besides watching TV, playing golf and tweeting?
You're too gullible!
Wrong. The changes are more significant than that but even if it's only .01% an improvement for Americans that's still more than Congress typically does in a day to help citizens. Why hold it up? The other two nations have moved forward with it.
To deny Trump "a win"? Do you really support your party being that petty?
Unions are a joke now days
share